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Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Spirit of 69, Nov 19, 2008.
Again good post G,
Can't remember if I've asked this or not: Did any original skinheads wear their jean bottoms above their ankles BUT without the turn ups? I ask this because today I went to get my jeans hemmed/tailored and when I got them back, the lady had sewed them from the inside!.. Idk how she got that part wrong, it's not the first time I went to her for alterations(I didn't pay a lot so it's no big deal ).
Regarding the Rudies influence over Skinheads, We have mentioned them before on this thread, go back a little and you will see.
But as a said before, I always thought they copied us, In saying that one Black lad Lenny V who was also a Kilburn Lad was the smartest bloke in the area and had a influence over some of us smarter Skinheads.
One thing is worth saying, Rudies never wore boots and Braces, but some Black lads who was in our Mob did. To be more precise, Black lads who hung around with us would dress like us, White lads who hung around with Black lads dressed like them.
A Original Rudie with Me in Brum last Year.
Not to start with Harry,they just got younger as the Scene went on-towards `70.
Look at Pictures of Derrick Morgan and Laurel Aitken and tell me they did not influence Mods/Skinheads.If you look at original Photo of a Rudy,you will see the influences there-shorter trousers,white socks,Mohair Suits etc.That was in Jamaica.
When the Scene started going towards the Skinhead Look(say `67/`68) the average Age was 18(I was 17).It was not until `69 you started to get the younger element in(15/16).You could not get into the Clubs unless you were 18(Limbo etc.).By `70 you had even younger ones.
Where I was and where I travelled to(inc.Central London)I never saw any Braces worn outside of Jumpers.But,then again it is the younger element that are wearing them-this did not influence us older ones.In fact,with more and more youngsters coming into the Scene-this was one of the reasons why we changed direction.
A true set of Facts I am afraid!!
I loved the theme music by Lao Schifrin. Still do.
Oh yeah, and the Mustang.
Well I did, and still do, but I guess that was more the influence of mod 'ankle-swingers', which was where I was coming from.
Well, Choco, I think I'm going to have to disagree up to a point. It was the older guys who first grew their hair, unbuttoned the collar buttons of their Bens, and moved away from the hard look. Younger kids followed on; but having said that, the horizontally-striped 'tank top' (specifically, at that time, a knitted, sleeveless jumper with a round or even round-and-scooped neck) was picked up on and made an iconic part of the younger kids' outfit. They called them 'bee jumpers' because of the broad stripes. But I think it's safe to say that at least half of the 'driving on' was done by older guys. By my birthday in 1970 my hair was over my collar.
Talking about Jamaica always reminds me Roddy Moreno's sentence from Skinhead Attitude document which many skinheads of today take as holy truth: "Skinheads wouldn't exist without Jamaica". What's the originals' opinion on this sentence?
Personally, I never did and still don't wear my jeans without a cuff. All my mates in our area wore them cuffed as did our older brothers and friends some of whom came from the earlier Mod look.
Oh man! Very smart looking duo!
We had black friends and they looked like us/we looked like them - all Skinheads. We were in to clothes, music and football not social history or sociology as in the Generation X book etc. It's only nowadays that people are looking too far in to the scene to find a historic lineage or hidden messages here and there! Again, I kinda see it same as Roy. We were just living our lives oblivious to whether Rudies or our Grandfathers influenced us or not.
Proves the point again of "horses for courses" and there would be deviations from the norm or standard issue.
Well MoM, that's what makes a good forum - disagreements and all! I actually agree with what you say. I meant as we younger ones started out following, we were the ones who were around longer to take the look in various other (well documented) ways. The older guys had moved on/lost interest/got married etc.like my brother who at 15/16 was a super cool Skinhead (in my eyes) to dropping off the radar at 20 - never going the Suedehead/Smooth/Boot boy route that me and my mates did.
Re: Bee Jumpers. We called them idiot jumpers or just plain old tank tops. Idiot jumpers because nearly every one who wore one looked an idiot - even some of our teachers wore the damn things!
See other comments above from myself and Roy. Not sure how Roddy Moreno would know apart from surmising from books, forums, hearsay etc. We were not in the least bit knowledgeable of, or even interested in, whether it come from Jamaica. If you asked me at the time where it all come from I'd have thrown you a blank look or worse! If you mentioned Jamaica I'd have thought you were referring to Bermondsey and everyone knows Skinhead started there.
This thread is always interesting and throws up new stuff all the time,
When i write stuff on here i try to do it without hindsight, I write how i saw it in NW W London in 69, The Kilburn Mob was made up of around 80% 15/16 Year olds, The others 18/19 year olds.. as i have said they dressed a little different to us. but it was our age group who made the scene what it became, Yes the older one's was moving on around 69, Getting married, getting more sensible. We was more up for the aggro and had no fear.
If you look at the documentary about Kilburn, You will see Pat Nugent and Phil Hayes in the front at the Pheonix club disco...they was 18, and 19 at the time , and seemed like old men to us, I have always said if you was under 13, or over 19 in 69 then you was either to young or to old to be a Skinhead.
Fcuk me am in me lunch break but had to get on here as this is a great debate at the mo,
Thats how i also saw it. 40 % of my School in 68 was made up of Black Lads, some born here...and some new from the West Indies, The Skinhead style and like most fashion cults start at school, We just started wearing the clobber both Black and White Lads together... and as you say G , no one ever mentioned Jamaica or thought we was being influenced by Jamaica.
I mean Donkey Jackets, Jungle Greens, Commando Boots, Braces, Where is the West Indian influence there? Their is none. It was pure White working class,
I find the jacket incredibly short, personally.
some really interesting stuff overnight!
that is a great record by Jackie Mittoo...and I always liked his pics wearing a suit as well. yes the jacket is a very short bumfreezer, but quite a few artists at that time wore them like that, Sam Cooke immediately comes to mind.
I'm glad the Jamaica thing was brought up, the one bit of nonsense I've heard over the years by American skinheads is the mantra "the first skinheads were Jamaican". One of my good mates when i was about 19 wore a Jamaican flag on his MA-1 along with Star n Stripes, and I thought that slightly strange. I also never quite understood jamaican flags being displayed at ska/reggae do's, as well as having booths of jamaican food??? I mean, i get where it's coming from, but think it's odd.
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