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Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Spirit of 69, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

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    [​IMG]
    Scuttlers as they might have looked


    As they might have looked if the shops had been full of Burberry shmatter in the 19c!
     
  2. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

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    Am i right in saying Robert Elms was only 9 in 1969. How can anyone call themselves a Skinhead at that age.

    I think this is the whole point. You can't stop someone calling himself anything he wants, you can't stop a kid copying his older brother, you can't stop a whole lot of little kids flooding into an existing subculture and re-making it in their own image. It happens time and time again - revolt turns into style and is reinvented - and the older kids at the other end drift away.
     
  3. Brideshead

    Brideshead Senior member

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    As they might have looked if the shops had been full of Burberry shmatter in the 19c!

    They may well have been as the company started in 1856. I'm not sure when the famous (now infamous) check was perfected? Is that actually Burberry?

    '19th-Century Origins
    Founder Thomas Burberry was born in 1835 and apprenticed in the drapery trade, establishing his own drapery business in Basingstoke, Hampshire, in 1856. A sportsman, Burberry was dissatisfied with the then-popular rubberized mackintosh raincoat, which was heavy, restricting, and stifling, and thus unsuitable for extended outings. Inspired by country folk's loose "smocks," Burberry designed a tightly woven fabric made from water-repellent linen or cotton yarn. Although sturdy and tear-resistant, this "Burberry-proofed" cloth was lightweight and allowed air to circulate, making it considerably more comfortable than the heavy mackintosh. The tailor trademarked his cloth "Gabardine," a Shakespearean term that referred to shelter from inclement weather. Burberry developed five different weights of gabardine: "Airylight," "Double-Weave," "Karoo," "Wait-a-bit," and "Tropical." He even patented "Burberry-proofed" linings made from silk and wool.
    Burberry was a shrewd marketer, employing trademarking and advertising to great benefit. Illustrated advertisements touting the clothing "designed by sportsmen for sportsmen" drew customers to Burberry's retail outlet, which was established in London's Haymarket section in 1891. Having used a variety of labels to distinguish its garments from imitations, the company registered the "Equestrian Knight" trademark in 1909, an insignia used continuously through the mid-1990s.
    '
     
  4. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

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    John it occurred to me that a great deal of tartan for the 19c Scottish trade was actually produced in Manchester and the cotton towns of Lancashire. The Burberry check wasn't invented until the 1920s.
     
  5. Batwing

    Batwing Member

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    As the look was evolving, were there any noticeable faux pas or oddities?
     
  6. Brideshead

    Brideshead Senior member

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    Lol, you're right. For some reason, I always ended up on the Crombie (british website) so never thought past it. http://www.crombie.co.uk/

    But I think your post still deserved more of a response. Here's mine:

    There has been a lot of interest recently in the thread about the working class fashions of the Victorian era and, while this is fascinating stuff, I doubt the style of the scuttlers, back scuttlers or hooligans had much bearing on our style in the late 1960s.

    What influenced my crowd was first the desire to be fashionable and, if you were working or lower middle class that had to mean a skinhead look. At the same time we wanted to feel there was an "˜authenticity' about our clothing - many an afternoon was spent drooling over the knitwear on display in Burlington Arcade, for example. Then we would buy an M&S equivalent or as close as we could get[​IMG] .

    We saved up for the trip to Richmond from Essex (a long haul) to buy that "˜authentic' pair of Royals. We examined the style of 30s and 40s classic movies looking for small enhancements that we might embrace within our look.

    I am convinced we were aware of the historical perspective. But not just, in fact not even, the working class heritage. We wanted to feel that we were embracing tradition - one our fathers had all but spurned with their 'orrible light grey suits and tan slip on shoes. We wanted quality and as Kingstonian has said it was thankfully fairly readily available on the High Street then - but you had to pick carefully. We did visit very traditional mens shops and spent more than we could afford on our clothes. It was an aspirational look. The fact that a company was old and established had a great appeal. Crombie started in 1805. Levis, albeit not the ones we wear today dated from the mid 19th C.

    As I read more posts here I do begin to wonder if I just happened to be a skinhead. I wanted to be well dressed (still trying in fact) and that coincided with skinhead style for a year or two.
     
  7. Brideshead

    Brideshead Senior member

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    As the look was evolving, were there any noticeable faux pas or oddities?

    Yes. I need to think a bit before I reply properly.
     
  8. Get Smart

    Get Smart Don't Crink

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    As I read more posts here I do begin to wonder if I just happened to be a skinhead. I wanted to be well dressed (still trying in fact) and that coincided with skinhead style for a year or two.


    i've heard this from others as well....guys who didnt know they were "skinheads" until now, as they had dressed the part in the late 60s but since that term wasnt readily used they never identified with it until recently, looking back and thinking "hey that's how I dressed, I must have been a skinhead".
     
  9. Alex Roest

    Alex Roest Senior member

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    I am convinced we were aware of the historical perspective. We wanted to feel that we were embracing tradition – We did visit very traditional mens shops and spent more than we could afford on our clothes. It was an aspirational look. The fact that a company was old and established had a great appeal. I do begin to wonder if I just happened to be a skinhead. I wanted to be well dressed* (still trying in fact) and that coincided with skinhead style for a year or two.

    Good post John and one that deserves elaborating on I think.

    One other 'trusted source' has mentioned this* also apart from wanting to attract the opposite sex, as I subsequently put it in 'The French Cut', taking things to a basic level. Now I know for a fact people were uncomfortable, to an extent, as for their sartorial experimentation. Not just with hindsight but at the very moment things were 'evolving' I mean. So it makes sense that people would return to what was in fact a rather good concept (in that it had been given proper thought in the first place) in one way or another?
     
  10. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

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    I wanted to be a mod when I was 12/13. I got to be one when I was 16/17. You know the story - I moved to London in '68, mixed with people who dressed (as near as damn it) the same way as I did and liked (as near as damn it) the same kind of music. Suddenly in 1969 someone stuck a different label on it.

    I guess I wanted to be part of a crowd, part of an in-group. Yes, part of a sub-culture which didn't take anything from outside but made its own rules. But I didn't sit down and decide this, I didn't 'think' about it like I am doing with hindsight now.
     
  11. Lasttye

    Lasttye Senior member

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    I Personally was un aware of any historical perspective, I had no idea at the time that our cloths had been around for years, to me it was all new.
    I just wanted to be the best dressed, I looked at the really smart dressed lads and copied them, When i saw Terry Suttie in a POW suit i thought fcuk he looks smart. not knowing that this patten was popular in the 30s.
     
  12. Alex Roest

    Alex Roest Senior member

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    Some people do the thinking, others just recognise the appeal which doesn't mean the one is more important than the other. The fact that we're still discussing a certain 'look' after all those years surely means something pretty substantial though?
     
  13. harrysgame

    harrysgame Senior member

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    I think this is the whole point. You can't stop someone calling himself anything he wants, you can't stop a kid copying his older brother, you can't stop a whole lot of little kids flooding into an existing subculture and re-making it in their own image. It happens time and time again - revolt turns into style and is reinvented - and the older kids at the other end drift away.



    Yes fair enough Paul. But to the write about as if you at the centre of it all like he has.

    Both my brothers were skinheads in 68/9. I was 5 or 6 then and have fond memories of how they dressed. I even wore fred perrys ect, plus my Mum had a tonic suit made for me for my sisters wedding just like my brothers. It didn't make me a Skinhead or an expert on it though.
     
  14. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

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    Yes fair enough Paul. But to the write about as if you at the centre of it all like he has. Both my brothers were skinheads in 68/9. I was 5 or 6 then and have fond memories of how they dressed. I even wore fred perrys ect, plus my Mum had a tonic suit made for me for my sisters wedding just like my brothers. It didn't make me a Skinhead or an expert on it though.
    To be fair to Robert Elms what he writes about is the experience of being clothes-mad and avid to be at the front of each new trend as it happened. For him being clothes-mad started when the guys in Crombies turned up to see his brother and ended when he wore a suit to a rave. It was his own experience he was writing about so in an important way he was at the centre of it, from being a wannabe skinhead to being left behind by acid house. I have no problem at all with his writing subjectively about it.
     
  15. Brideshead

    Brideshead Senior member

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    Some people do the thinking, others just recognise the appeal which doesn't mean the one is more important than the other. The fact that we're still discussing a certain 'look' after all those years surely means something pretty substantial though?

    Alex you always hit the nail on the head, mate.
     

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