Mod to Suedehead

[Batwing]

Back in the day, where would you have got your hands on a Crombie?

Going on the uderstanding that, perhaps, back then they would be a bit pricey...

Would you have looked through second hand shops, or perhaps half inched off of family members?

 

[browniecj]

Originally Posted by Batwing

Back in the day, where would you have got your hands on a Crombie?

Going on the uderstanding that, perhaps, back then they would be a bit pricey...

Would you have looked through second hand shops, or perhaps half inched off of family members?
I got mine from a Gentlemans`Outfitters in East London.There was not the secondhand Stores,as there is now.Anyway,you would not have gone to one if there was.

 

[Kingstonian]

Most people had Crombie copies. They were fairly easy to come by and not expensive.

 

[browniecj]

Originally Posted by Kingstonian

Most people had Crombie copies. They were fairly easy to come by and not expensive.
The Crombie became popular twice-during the Skinhead years.The first time was about `68,this was when it was about looking around(not too many Outfitters stocked them)as they were expensve.They then came back into vogue in `69,when you could find the cheaper ones.More Shops were catering for the Skinhead Trade.At the end of this Period you had the really cheap and nasty ones come out.The less said about those the better.

 

[Alex Roest]

Not sure if this is of interest (and 'The Firm' may be aware anyway) but I'll post it because of an original mentioning the London bovver boys of the 1890's in some interview; as in his grandparents telling him skinheads were nothing new, even back then. I couldn't find anything on the net regarding the Londoners but the northern equivalent can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttlers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/cont..._feature.shtml

Yes, the fashions were very distinctive. The Scuttlers’ haircut was described as a ‘donkey fringe’: hair cropped very closely at the back and sides but with long fringes at the front that were longer on the left hand side than the right. They also wore neckerchiefs which might vary in pattern or colour and that would be used to denote membership of a particular gang: there are a few surviving photos in which the neckerchiefs look, ironically, very like modern day Burberry! The Scuttlers also wore bell-bottom trousers and, though many adults at the time wore clogs in Manchester, the Scuttlers’ clogs had a brass tip on the end. They would have made quite a clatter on the cobbles.

http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/769

The gangs had a distinctive dress code of long ‘donkey’ fringes, neckerchiefs, pointed clogs and caps tilted back on the head. The clothes and accessories immediately identified the scuttler as such, but also had their violent functions, as the scuttlers’ belts, with their large buckles, doubled up as weapons in fights. Whilst the fashions were common to all scuttler groups, place was the most distinctive influence in the shaping of scuttler identity and relationships between gangs.

 

[Lasttye]

So interesting, Thanks Alex for sharing.
This is a great read,The Victorian Underworld, by Kellow Chesney, First published 1970.

 

[Alex Roest]

Originally Posted by Lasttye

So interesting, Thanks Alex for sharing.
This is a great read,The Victorian Underworld, by Kellow Chesney, First published 1970.

Thank you also, Roy. I knew of the Gangs of Manchester book but had never bothered to order and read it. Think I'll just order the one you mention, too, for my collection...

 

[bunty]

In a similar vein -


The Hooligan Nights: Being the Life and Opinions of a Young and Impertinent Criminal Recounted by Himself and Set Forth by Clarence Rook (Oxford Paperbacks) -1899

'Great book, the English version of 'Gangs of New York' detailing the lives of petty criminals in Lambeth.'

The Scuttlers book is a great read, I like the sound of 'The Victorian Underworld' book too.

 

[Lasttye]

Was the name Hooligan come from a big troublesome Irish Family called the Hooleys from SE London in the 1890s ?

 

[Lasttye]

The Victorian Underworld is a great read, covers Gangs, Villains, Con Men, Beggers, Prostitution, Sporting Underworld, Cracksmen, Shoufulmen Fences, Its all there, also explaining Victorian language.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Originally Posted by Lasttye

Was the name Hooligan come from a big troublesome Irish Family called the Hooleys from SE London in the 1890s ?

OED: "Origin unascertained. The word first appears in print in daily newspaper police- court reports in the summer of 1898. Several accounts of the rise of the word, purporting to be based on first-hand evidence, attribute it to a misunderstanding or perversion of Hooley or Hooley's gang, but no positive confirmation of this has been discovered. The name Hooligan figured in a music-hall song of the eighteen-nineties, which described the doings of a rowdy Irish family, and a comic Irish character of the name appeared in a series of adventures in Funny Folks."

The name is close to the actual Irish surname 'Houlihan' (in fact 'Hooligan' is an alternative spelling). It's Irish spelling is 'O hUallachain' which is thought to come from the Irish word 'uallach' meaning 'proud'.

And so we come full circle from 'Hooligan' to 'Walk Proud'!

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Originally Posted by Alex Roest

Alex, that happens to be almost exactly how we tied our scarves in '67/68/69.

 

[browniecj]

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

Alex, that happens to be almost exactly how we tied our scarves in '67/68/69.
These then were the Skinheads` Ancestors.Interesting Post Alex.

 

[browniecj]

Originally Posted by Lasttye

The Victorian Underworld is a great read, covers Gangs, Villains, Con Men, Beggers, Prostitution, Sporting Underworld, Cracksmen, Shoufulmen Fences, Its all there, also explaining Victorian language.
Nothing much has changed then

 

[Batwing]

The one in the middle looks like he could be Graham Norton's angry younger brother