Mod to Suedehead

[Get Smart]

The "Skatalites" (after all it's become more of a tribute band now, after Lloyd Knibb passing away the other month) are playing at the Ink n Iron fest in long beach this saturday, i think they go on at 4ish

tbh, imho the local "mods" and their 3 button suits and skinny ties all seem a bit too "Carnaby St" to me, at least in the way they wear it. nowt wrong with 3 button suits/skinny ties, but the way it's done in america (at least socal) is oftentimes a bit cartoony, after having seen some real smart mods in London who have a more sophisticated take on the mod uniform. my 2 cents anyways...

 

[Alex Roest]

Originally Posted by browniecj

To be honest,I think a lot of the Originals dress similar to the "American Look" today. Bit old to wear Braces and Jeans-halfway up your leg.

Yeah, good comment. I always thought that was a weak point within KR's essay, that particular claim about a sophisticated fashion statement only a few would understand - middle-aged, conservative and all-American, the same as astronauts and GI's. The same goes for The Button-Down Types (PH) really...

Roy has mentioned the fact that people wore that stuff (jungle greens, boots, granddad shirts, cardigans etc.) without thinking, then again he was somewhat younger. You mentioned that you were conscious of the fact that you were crossing over from Mod to Peanut, though, Colin; Paul has mentioned his Northern Mod background several times and I know that John was very much aware of the 'Mod heritage' as well. So I guess at some point you must have felt a definitive change was taking place which was probably somewhat earlier than the summer of 1969?

 

[rufio]

Originally Posted by Get Smart

The "Skatalites" (after all it's become more of a tribute band now, after Lloyd Knibbs passing away the other month) are playing at the Ink n Iron fest in long beach this saturday, i think they go on at 4ish

tbh, imho the local "mods" and their 3 button suits and skinny ties all seem a bit too "Carnaby St" to me, at least in the way they wear it. nowt wrong with 3 button suits/skinny ties, but the way it's done in america (at least socal) is a bit cartoony, after having seen some real smart mods in London who have a more sophisticated take on the mod uniform. my 2 cents anyways...

Yeah, I was thinking about checking the Skatalites at the ink n iron....but nah....
Also, i def agree with you about the whole carnaby st thing. This is a rather great compliment the other day. I was scooting around Los Angeles with a couple of buddies, and we were eating at this "mexican" joint. There was this tall back fellow with dreads probably like 60 yrs old eating there, and i saw him keep glancing our way. Finally, as i was putting on my jacket ready to leave, he says "excuse me mate, are those navy sta-prest fuckin' levis? I love it! fuckin' Ben Sherman under your Harrington, ox bloody docs, and a hard part in your hair, a real fuckin' traditional skinhead, me and my mates dressed zactly like you, AND those are your lambrettas and vespas out there? Holy El, you brought me back many a memories!"
I left feeling pretty damn good!

 

[Get Smart]

^^ nice one

 

[Get Smart]

Originally Posted by rufio

Yeah, I was thinking about checking the Skatalites at the ink n iron....but nah....

I wouldnt mind going to see The Sonics tho, one of my fave bands in one of my fave music genres (60s garage)....but passing as well

 

[Lasttye]

As i have said before, We started to dress what became Skinheads, in 67 Boots, 68 Jungle Greens, I saw it happening around me, The style progressed... it was invented at School, and had no link to the Mods. in the beginning.
Now this is the question.. for Brownie and MoM, Did you copy the Lads younger than you, like wearing Boots, Jungle greens, Or did you pick it up later when we started to get smart in 69 ? From you being Mods ?

Just to add and to be a little clearer, The Older lads in 69, 17/19 Year olds never dressed like us, Boots, Braces and Shaved Heads, I was very aware of this at the time. as to me they was Men...and dressed accordingly.

This is how i saw it as a 15 year old in 69.

 

[browniecj]

Originally Posted by Lasttye

As i have said before, We started to dress what became Skinheads, in 67 Boots, 68 Jungle Greens, I saw it happening around me, The style progressed... it was invented at School, and had no link to the Mods. in the beginning.
Now this is the question.. for Brownie and MoM, Did you copy the Lads younger than you, like wearing Boots, Jungle greens, Or did you pick it up later when we started to get smart in 69 ? From you being Mods ?

Just to add and to be a little clearer, The Older lads in 69, 17/19 Year olds never dressed like us, Boots, Braces and Shaved Heads, I was very aware of this at the time. as to me they was Men...and dressed accordingly.

This is how i saw it as a 15 year old in 69.
To be honest Roy,it just happened(about the Jungle Greens etc.).I remember seeing someone in a pair and thought" I like them",he seemed the same age as me.The Boots were always there.To me they went with the "Greens".In `69 we had our hair cropped and for a time I wore Braces,but,the Boots were now dropped-unless there was Aggro.I remember one Sunday night,outside the Plaza,a Guy was "Suited-up",but he was carrying a pair of Boots.There was a rumour Streatham were coming that night.The Door Policy was you could not wear Boots into the Dancehall.

In my earlier Posts,I have said that ,in `67,I was starting to look cleaner(no.4 crop,smarter Trousers etc.),it took an older Hard Mod(another Roy-Warren Street)who gave me a sharper edge,Mohair Suits etc.He showed me the around the Shops.I often wonder what happened to Roy,he was about 2/3 years older than me.

 

[browniecj]

Roy(Warren Street)was never a Skinhead.If he was on this Forum now,he would say he was Mod.He never had his hair cropped but cut short with a parting blown in(Italian Hairdressers were past masters at this).I always called it the "London Cut"-though Lee Marvin has a similar one-along with the Royals-in "Point Blank".

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Originally Posted by browniecj

To be honest Roy,it just happened(about the Jungle Greens etc.).I remember seeing someone in a pair and thought" I like them",he seemed the same age as me.The Boots were always there.To me they went with the "Greens".

That's about how it was for me too. I liked jungle greens. There was a bloke at college with a pair, and loads of blokes on the street. Plus I still used to take an occasional trip back up North and I fancied the idea of wearing something different to get them talking up there. It gave me the chance to be 'first' with something.

I had just had my 18th birthday in summer 1968. I was mixing with lads of 17 - 19 mostly, people who dressed near enough how I had dressed up North but not quite (I think I have been into that before). I wore greens and boots to fit in and dropped a lot of the 'North' from what I wore, which was just a few details here and there.

There were a few younger kids too. By 1969 there were a few more younger kids adopting our look, and then a complete explosion in late 1969 when the press got hold of it.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Originally Posted by Lasttye

The style progressed... it was invented at School, and had no link to the Mods. in the beginning.
I'd like to get this clear, Roy. Do you mean that greens and boots were worn as schoolwear, worn at School? The funny thing is that more than one London girl referred to me as a 'mod' when I was wearing greens and boots in 1968. The blokes who were wearing stuff like that were the blokes who dressed the closest to how I had been dressing up North. They liked near enough the same music and so on. I saw what I was wearing as what would be called 'street fashion' these days. I never had a close crop in those days (I never had a No2 or No1 until I was middle-aged and losing my hair). I had a 'college boy' with a high parting, but with sideburns. The funny thing is that I used to ask my barber (in Brockley, London SE3) for 'a skinhead cut', and he would say, "You mean shorter than skinhead". This was before No2/No1 caught on. According to him 'skinhead' meant a short 'college boy' cut. I think you've all seen my haircut in the pics I have posted. No one back then said to me "You're hair's different" or anything like that.

 

[browniecj]

I know this is not exactly Skinhead,but I would like to give an idea why I became a Skinhead.
In `64 I went on a School trip to Carnaby Street(I think they would call it "Work Study" today).The Street was still the centre of Fashion-commercialism had not moved in then.I was fasc inated by the Boutiques,the colourful Clothes,the pretty Girls and the loud Music.The atmosphere was unbelievable.People darting from one shop to another with clothes over their arms-it was another world. I bought my first pair of Mod trousers then.They cost 84/-s,the money I had saved up from 3 Paper Rounds and the Saturday(and School Holidays`)job I had in my Father`s Butcher Shop.In `65,I went to work as a Junior in a "Gentlemans Outfitters".I was taught The Cloths and the Materials that went into making Suits,Shirts and Ties etc.Two of my Work Colleagues were Mods.Ian was a year older than me,but well up on the Styles,and Tony was a "West End"Mod-E-type Jag.,well cut Suits,manicured Nails etc.He had the "Works".One day one of the Owners came up to myself and Ian and said he wanted a" Young Set" Department-I think Tony put him up to it.We put our heads together and began making suggestions about what Clothing to put in-that would appeal to Teenagers.Shop Displays then were more decorative than they are now.We made it look like a Cave(Lighting,Paper mache etc.),to tie in with the Company`s Name Calder and Cave.It bought in the Customers,I can proudly say.It was through all this that I got really interested in Fashion.I later went into Shoes.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Originally Posted by browniecj

One day one of the Owners came up to myself and Ian and said he wanted a" Young Set" Department-I think Tony put him up to it.We put our heads together and began making suggestions about what Clothing to put in-that would appeal to Teenagers.Shop Displays then were more decorative than they are now.We made it look like a Cave(Lighting,Paper mache etc.),to tie in with the Company`s Name Calder and Cave.It bought in the Customers,I can proudly say.It was through all this that I got really interested in Fashion.I later went into Shoes.

Who da man?!?

 

[Lasttye]

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

I'd like to get this clear, Roy. Do you mean that greens and boots were worn as schoolwear, worn at School.

I meant When we was at school rather than to school although we would try it on and wear Greens and Boots and just get sent home,during our last year loads of us just rebelled and wore what we liked so mostly we just bunked off.

I am just trying to work out, did the older lads copy us, or did we copy them? still cant work it out after all these years

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Originally Posted by Lasttye

I meant When we was at school rather than to school although we would try it on and wear Greens and Boots and just get sent home,during our last year loads of us just rebelled and wore what we liked so mostly we just bunked off.

I am just trying to work out, did the older lads copy us, or did we copy them? still cant work it out after all these years

Got it. I think it was a bit of both ways. Robert Elms copied his big brother, I copied the jungle greens from other blokes when I got to London in '68 and I don't know where they got it from. At college there were a couple of blokes in 'greens & boots' who ran the karate club; they were total hard nuts! They were about my age, one was 18 one was 19. I knew one of the 'Smithies' from Deptford who wore greens and boots - they were younger. Blokes of all ages between about 14-20 seemed to be wearing greens or Levis with boots of one sort or another, even some of the greasers.

 

[Little Queenie]

Originally Posted by browniecj

I know this is not exactly Skinhead,but I would like to give an idea why I became a Skinhead.
In `64 I went on a School trip to Carnaby Street(I think they would call it "Work Study" today).The Street was still the centre of Fashion-commercialism had not moved in then.I was fasc inated by the Boutiques,the colourful Clothes,the pretty Girls and the loud Music.The atmosphere was unbelievable.People darting from one shop to another with clothes over their arms-it was another world. I bought my first pair of Mod trousers then.They cost 84/-s,the money I had saved up from 3 Paper Rounds and the Saturday(and School Holidays`)job I had in my Father`s Butcher Shop.In `65,I went to work as a Junior in a "Gentlemans Outfitters".I was taught The Cloths and the Materials that went into making Suits,Shirts and Ties etc.Two of my Work Colleagues were Mods.Ian was a year older than me,but well up on the Styles,and Tony was a "West End"Mod-E-type Jag.,well cut Suits,manicured Nails etc.He had the "Works".One day one of the Owners came up to myself and Ian and said he wanted a" Young Set" Department-I think Tony put him up to it.We put our heads together and began making suggestions about what Clothing to put in-that would appeal to Teenagers.Shop Displays then were more decorative than they are now.We made it look like a Cave(Lighting,Paper mache etc.),to tie in with the Company`s Name Calder and Cave.It bought in the Customers,I can proudly say.It was through all this that I got really interested in Fashion.I later went into Shoes.

I like that - very interesting! It's good to have some background, too. I think we should have more stories of how people happened upon Mod / Skinhead for the book: it expands the understanding of how it evolved and it would be fascinating to see if there is a common experience or thread to the tales.