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donkeyjacket2

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When was the last time any of us talked to a proper skinhead anyway, you know, someone who looked like they could get into trouble just because of the way they looked?
Never in my life time i was the only skinhead in town apart from an 80s style skin i saw wearing a union jack shirt once, looked younger than me, saw some middle aged blokes in typical skin gear in larger towns but didn't put much thought into it. you have to watch out more for little scrotes wearing sports gear and selling drugs on street corners so you don't get stabbed.

The age of subcultures is kind of over to be honest which is a shame in a way.
 

Thin White Duke

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Never in my life time i was the only skinhead in town apart from an 80s style skin i saw wearing a union jack shirt once, looked younger than me, saw some middle aged blokes in typical skin gear in larger towns but didn't put much thought into it. you have to watch out more for little scrotes wearing sports gear and selling drugs on street corners so you don't get stabbed.

The age of subcultures is kind of over to be honest which is a shame in a way.
Im reaching back around thirty years so those more knowledgable can chip in but there was a quite famous documentary on the telly about football violence. It was a huge revelation to the authorities cos they had been chasing after thuggy looking skinheads when it turned out the real perpetrators were more a version of casuals wearing ‘designer’ gear and travelling to away matches under the radar by inter city train not the bus. I suppose Harry Enfield’s ‘Loadsamoney’ character was a caricature of this.
As for the death of subculture, I blame Nirvana and grunge, that was when it all ended for me. Before that I can remember looking round our sixth form common room in the eighties you could tell exactly what music anyone was into by their Barnet! It was a great time to be alive and even though we moaned every week about how crap TOTP was when you see the retro shows they do there was always a couple of decent bands on in that wonderfully eclectic time.
 

Swampster

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I think the subcultures are still there, but elements of them have become so mainstream that they don't stand out on the radar and/or many of the adherents show a watered down version (which was ever so). Some of them have been long lasting and retained many of their original features - Goths for instance (though I wouldn't know where Goth finishes and Goth-lite Emo starts). Hip hop styles are not drastically different to what would have been seen 30 years ago. In some ways, the subcultures can be even more entrenched now that the youngsters can talk to people of similar interests across the world using this interweb thingy.
EDIT <- I've just had a look at online articles about yoof subculture. In the early 2010s, the Guardian had an article about the virtual disappearance of such things, saying that only Goth/Emo and 'Metalheads' remained. Over the last few years, though, there have been articles saying the exact opposite.>

It could be that the subcultures are even more balkanized so that there aren't enough people with a style to be noticed much on the street (and I think some cultures just wouldn't go out on the street much). It is even harder for the music of subcultures to make a mark on the music scene, and that is what I think _has_ changed. The dominance of certain styles seems to have been maintained for a while. I went out with some colleagues for someone's birthday and the places we went to seemed to play the same hippityhop grimey music all night. If I were more up on it, I may have noticed that it was actual in a variety of styles, but it didn't seem that way to me.I don't know whether Taylor Swift or Ed Sheeran would be thought of as being part of a particular genre.
OTOH, there seem to be more people willing to listen to a wide variety of music from past and present. The variety at something like Glastonbury shows this.

As for TOTP, the years roughly 77 to 82 will usually have something decent on, but usually there is a lot of stuff I would rather skip. There is very little disco that I like, and we have to remember the St Winifred's Choirs and Lena Martells which cropped up. The rest of the 80s was increasingly not to my taste.

I was trying to think how identifiable the music tastes in my sixth form would have been at that same period. Out of about dozen in my year, I think only three lads could have been identified - two with lesser forms of a Phil Oakey cut and one with the full Robert Plant look. The rest had pretty non-descript short to mid-length styles with perhaps the odd Simon LeBon flick and over the ears influence, regardless of musical taste. Mine was just starting towards the Sterling Morrison look, which was odd as I had never heard the Velvet Underground at the time, let alone seen what they looked like (though I was always drawn to the album in second hand shops - the power of art).

For those of an older persuasion, there are those who maintain varying degrees of their youthful look. The majority of people have always worn 'mainstream' fashion. Some retain elements of what they wore at some point, whether mainstream or otherwise. Some of this can be down to suitability for work. I could tell pretty much straight away when a new colleague started that he would be into Britpop. For another colleague I wouldn't have been able to tell that he was into NWOBR.
I don't think it is even necessarily an age thing - perhaps we are just more tuned in to the styles of our own youth. Someone of around my age came round here today to do some work and I could immediately tell by the shirt and shoes that he was likely to have Mod/Ska etc leanings. When I put some music on, I found I was right.
 
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donkeyjacket2

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Im reaching back around thirty years so those more knowledgable can chip in but there was a quite famous documentary on the telly about football violence. It was a huge revelation to the authorities cos they had been chasing after thuggy looking skinheads when it turned out the real perpetrators were more a version of casuals wearing ‘designer’ gear and travelling to away matches under the radar by inter city train not the bus. I suppose Harry Enfield’s ‘Loadsamoney’ character was a caricature of this.
As for the death of subculture, I blame Nirvana and grunge, that was when it all ended for me. Before that I can remember looking round our sixth form common room in the eighties you could tell exactly what music anyone was into by their Barnet! It was a great time to be alive and even though we moaned every week about how crap TOTP was when you see the retro shows they do there was always a couple of decent bands on in that wonderfully eclectic time.
Fast fashion, and the internet also plays a part i think, there is less commitment to a certain style considering clothes are so disposable now.

Modern goths look quite different to me than the 80s ones, my mum was one in the 80s and still has a few pics from the time, big teased hair, winklepickers etc, it looks far less elegant now, and i haven't seen any modern ones in years, perhaps it's because i live in the middle of nowhere.
 

donkeyjacket2

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I still sometimes go out dressed belligerently so that someone will say to me "Why do you dress like a racist?" and I can say "I don't - the racists dress like me!" :-D
I can't remember ever getting any comments like that, someone asked if i voted bnp once and i said no, but i cant never remember being asked why i dress like a racist.
 

Swampster

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Fast fashion, and the internet also plays a part i think, there is less commitment to a certain style considering clothes are so disposable now.

Modern goths look quite different to me than the 80s ones, my mum was one in the 80s and still has a few pics from the time, big teased hair, winklepickers etc, it looks far less elegant now, and i haven't seen any modern ones in years, perhaps it's because i live in the middle of nowhere.
I think fast fashion has changed things a great deal, but then as this thread has shown in the past, there have always been those who wanted to move onto the next thing. They just did so a bit more slowly.

I think the more elegant Goths go for the Steampunk look nowadays. The more extreme sort favour the deliberately disturbing Marilyn Manson look. I think I see more of the Steampunk type, but usually in somewhere like Oxford where they seemed to be having a gathering. It seems that if you go to Whitby at certain times, you can't move for google bedecked top hats and lace cuffs. That Stoker chap has a lot to answer for.
 

donkeyjacket2

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Still prefer how the original punky type ones looked, same with most subcultures, the more you get away from the source the less inspired it looks imo.
 

Thin White Duke

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I still sometimes go out dressed belligerently so that someone will say to me "Why do you dress like a racist?" and I can say "I don't - the racists dress like me!" :-D
Yeah that’s a bit like when people say they won’t wear a St George flag or a Union flag cos they’re scared of being thought of as BNP racist types. Take the flag back! Are we the only people to be ashamed of their flag? Here in America the yanks are notorious for their flag waving so we may not need to go THAT far but there’s no reason for shame. You see flags on houses, bumper stickers on cars, etc from countries all over the world over here.
 

Thin White Duke

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Still prefer how the original punky type ones looked, same with most subcultures, the more you get away from the source the less inspired it looks imo.
Yeah I used to frequent a very eclectic club in the eighties and a lot of goths went there too. The girls looked like Siouxsie or Patricia Morrison (Gun Club, Sisters of Mercy) or Cleo from The March Violets or Joan Jett or Daryl Hannah as Priss in ‘Bladerunner’. Spike heel boots, fishnets, leather jackets and mini skirts. Now I see goths and they look like morbidly obese social misfits with BO and Xanax addictions and facial piercings who are into Slipknot and self-harm, wearing those massive black canvas bell bottoms with all the crap hanging off them!
 

Swampster

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Yeah that’s a bit like when people say they won’t wear a St George flag or a Union flag cos they’re scared of being thought of as BNP racist types. Take the flag back! Are we the only people to be ashamed of their flag? Here in America the yanks are notorious for their flag waving so we may not need to go THAT far but there’s no reason for shame. You see flags on houses, bumper stickers on cars, etc from countries all over the world over here.
While not a fan of football, I think the flag waving at various competitions in the 90s 'reclaimed' both the Union flag and cross of St George which I see as a good thing. I wasn't so keen on the flags on cars but that was largely down to the littering.
One sign of this is that virtually every house visited on the various house buying programmes seems to have a Union flag cushion or similar. Another is that one of the (apparently likeable) Coronation St characters has prominent flags in his house. Much of this is due to the adoption of the flag as a fashion item but does show some breaking of the old stigma.

Interestingly (to me anyway) the Union flag had become such a widely used fashion item that in Cuba there was a craze for carrying bags with the flag on it. Many of those interviewed had no idea what flag it is.

On the international front, there is a local house which makes up for the rest of my area in that it flies a different nation's flag each day. I always try to identify which one they have as I go past. Obviously they must have duplicated them over the years but I don't think I have seen the same one twice.

I read an article on Die, Workwear yesterday showing how the American attitude to the flag has changed a bit too. It was about Abbie Hoffman being prosecuted for wearing a shirt in the style of the stars and stripes when he was due to appear at the House of Representatives. The article contrasted that with the modern wearing of a similar shirt by a former Chairman of the JCS at a gathering of veterans. The intent with which each wore their shirts is different but still shows a change in what is acceptable.
 
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donkeyjacket2

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Yeah I used to frequent a very eclectic club in the eighties and a lot of goths went there too. The girls looked like Siouxsie or Patricia Morrison (Gun Club, Sisters of Mercy) or Cleo from The March Violets or Joan Jett or Daryl Hannah as Priss in ‘Bladerunner’. Spike heel boots, fishnets, leather jackets and mini skirts. Now I see goths and they look like morbidly obese social misfits with BO and Xanax addictions and facial piercings who are into Slipknot and self-harm, wearing those massive black canvas bell bottoms with all the crap hanging off them!
From what information i got from me mam goths were kind of misfits even back then, at least in the north, she has never considered slipknot or Marilyn Manson anything to do with the subculture, and she said the goths she hung around with were some of the nicest people she ever knew.

Same with a lot of older ex skinheads iv'e talked to from there 50's to 60's, none of them ever come across as being nasty people, it's ''normal'' people i always had trouble with and still kind of do.
 

Thin White Duke

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From what information i got from me mam goths were kind of misfits even back then, at least in the north, she has never considered slipknot or Marilyn Manson anything to do with the subculture, and she said the goths she hung around with were some of the nicest people she ever knew.

Same with a lot of older ex skinheads iv'e talked to from there 50's to 60's, none of them ever come across as being nasty people, it's ''normal'' people i always had trouble with and still kind of do.
Yeah the music the goths listened to, which a lot of it I liked too, was Bauhaus, the Banshees, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy, Danse Society, Spear of Destiny, Killing Joke, March Violets, Play Dead, Gene Loves Jezebel, Death Cult / Cult, the Mission, etc. I think a lot of the ‘second wave’ goths were into American stuff like Marilyn Manson, Nine Inch Nails Etc
 

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