Mod to Suedehead

[browniecj]

Did not know that,about Watford Top Rank,Lasttye.I used to visit a Girl -so did not realise it happening.

 

[Lasttye]

Originally Posted by browniecj

Did not know that,about Watford Top Rank,Lasttye.I used to visit a Girl -so did not realise it happening.
Well the Top Rank Watford was out in the sticks for us, also Black people did not get that far out of London in 69

 

[Lasttye]

Once we started to Drink and used pubs, we no longer went to the Youth clubs, most Black lads did not drink..so they would then take over our Youth clubs,
As someone also said other than the youth clubs, they had their own clubs, Cant remember any of them now though.

 

[browniecj]

That was where,in the beginning,the Coffee Bars were handy.A meeting place to catch up on the gossip and Fashion.

 

[Southlondongent]

Some interested stuff being posted here, I've had a lot on recently so just catching up.

Lasttye, weren't any of the Willesden or Kilburn crews QPR supporters? It would seem more natural than Chesea (my family are from that area and thereabouts and are QPR!). Or was it that Chelsea had the harder Firm so they gravitated towards that because of the reputation (like you I suppose!

)?

Some interesting stuff about boots, braces, army greens being worn in '65. Certainly braces were being introduced into Mod clothing by '66...pictorial evidence of some bands (who, of course copied the real faces) support that...the Birds, the Beatstalkers, Pete Townshend to name a few. Pete Townshend is an interesting example. Obviously never a real Mod, in the late 60's whilst most other Rock musicians adopted a hippy look, Townshend would often wear jeans, boots, tank tops over button downs, and of course his white boiler suit and DMs look (pre-Clockwork Orange).

Also there are photos of gangs of Mods on scooters some of them wearing heavy boots, I guess this would be mid-60s.

 

[raging_rapid]

Originally Posted by Lasttye

Before BDs We wore any type of shirt 67/8 ?, I do remember Tab collared Shirts, My Brother would wear them. Nice shirt. My mate Tom was chatting to me about this type of shirt, I said its not Skinhead, But he dont claim to be a skinhead, so He is gonna get one lol

One thing thats worth mentioning.. Present Day Skinheads almost exclusively wear check shirts, fitted, sewn in back pleat, with large BD collars, fairly short sleeves, with a V and a button each side, they look like the old Brutus and Jaytex, that was worn 70, mostly by little Skinheads, and cheap.

Back in the Day 60s BDs had a more baggie look, The collar seemed somewhat smaller, The short sleeves would be baggie down to just above the elbow, no silly buttons each side, back pleats was not sewn in, and was considered naff to do so.
One thing sticks in my mind, going into the Bull Richmond , Seeing all these lads wearing White Ben Shermans with White socks to match, Back then a lot of clubs had Ultraviolet light that would make anything whiter than white. Also any scars on ones head would also stand out Lol. Other pastel colours was also worn.

I guess one thing that we all harken back to, are previous generations. I came about on the scene in the 1980s as a teen and so I guess that makes me part of the second generation. With the third wave coming in the 1990s and the subculture pretty much still very much around today, with more than ever before, but also, with it being more hidden, more underground and lots of older lads and lasses, rediscovering their youth. I love the original suedehead styles myself. Even in the 1980s and 90s, Ben shermans were largely pin striped or plain with Brutus, being checked shirts on the whole. However, these days, there's been an evolving of the style.

A kind of return to the spirit of the originals, with an evolution of the style to suit modern needs and ideas. I like it, a real shift. Its got to be better than the punk influences that sprang out of the 1980s/two-tone era.

I heard that the Crombie largely missed the actual 1966 - 69 era and didn't actually become big until the Suedehead era. Another thing is that people go on about the spirit of 1969, yet even then I have seen many photo's in London that show Skins have largely dropped the braces n' boots, for shoes and knitted vests and sta-prest with their hair grown out to a number 4. However, this may have just been photo's of the Faces of the sub-culture, those who were moving on, after the Daily mail wrote the article that finally named the scene "Skinheads". I do suppose there was a crossover period between 1969 and 1970 in London?

As for Tabbed Collars, I heard that they made a come back during the suedehead/smoothie era's but I'm not entirely sure if its true?

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Originally Posted by raging_rapid

I heard that the Crombie largely missed the actual 1966 - 69 era and didn't actually become big until the Suedehead era.

I don't know where you heard that!

Originally Posted by raging_rapid

Another thing is that people go on about the spirit of 1969, yet even then I have seen many photo's in London that show Skins have largely dropped the braces n' boots, for shoes and knitted vests and sta-prest with their hair grown out to a number 4. However, this may have just been photo's of the Faces of the sub-culture, those who were moving on...

Shoes were always part of the style, as were 'knitted vests' (we would call them slipovers or sleeveless pullovers) and Sta-Prest. Plenty of photos to substantiate this.

Originally Posted by raging_rapid

...after the Daily mail wrote the article that finally named the scene "Skinheads". I do suppose there was a crossover period between 1969 and 1970 in London?

I need to be reminded of that article (I'm getting old).

Originally Posted by raging_rapid

As for Tabbed Collars, I heard that they made a come back during the suedehead/smoothie era's but I'm not entirely sure if its true?

I certainly never saw them.

 

[Southlondongent]

Originally Posted by loempiavreter

@M-o-M, Brideshead
That gets me wondering, why is it that a lot of the clubs you guys went to, barred you if you didn't dressed smart? Club owners asking such demands, even if it was the current "in" thing, still find it strange it was mandatory. So did you find any other kids there at the venue besides skinheads, who had to dress smart?

It might surprise you but right up until the late 80's most clubs (well provincial ones at least) in the UK had a 'smart dress only' or maybe 'smart-casual' dress code. It was really Acid House/Rave that killed it off (to an extent, as a lot of clubs still have smart-casual dress codes).

 

[Lasttye]

Some interested stuff being posted here, I've had a lot on recently so just catching up.

Lasttye, weren't any of the Willesden or Kilburn crews QPR supporters? It would seem more natural than Chesea (my family are from that area and thereabouts and are QPR!). Or was it that Chelsea had the harder Firm so they gravitated towards that because of the reputation (like you I suppose!

)?

You are right Southlondongent, To narrow down where i lived was Queens Park, West Kilburn, QPR was founded in Droop St, Queens Park.
Many lads was QPR, I support Chelsea as the majority of my mates was Chelsea, QPR had and still have a handy little mob,
Got to say Chelsea and QPR was the best dressed Skinheads, thats a fact

 

[albion]

Here's a pic i had not seen before, apparently of Chelsea boys.

 

[albion]

Here's another pic of Chelsea...looks very much like Danny Eccles in the middle. Interesting to see a black skinhead in the crew..Anyone know how common this was back then?.. I knew a few black skinheads in the 80's.

 

[raging_rapid]

Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery

I don't know where you heard that!



Shoes were always part of the style, as were 'knitted vests' (we would call them slipovers or sleeveless pullovers) and Sta-Prest. Plenty of photos to substantiate this.



I need to be reminded of that article (I'm getting old).



I certainly never saw them.

Much of what I've written above, comes out of observations from "The Soul Stylists" book I'd just been reading and also, in the spirit of 69 book, by George Marshall, it seems to suggest this also. However, likely it was very different in different parts of the country.

Reading this article, just shows how messed up the scene was (and in different parts of the country):
http://www.kinacerecords.com/chapter...f574b79118684e

I also think that it wasn't quite as clear cut on the politics also as the article makes out since Skinheads were largely mixing and mingling with the Blacks of West London and the whole ****-bashing thing, was likely more an East London thing, since that's where they were settling.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Originally Posted by albion

...looks very much like Danny Eccles in the middle.
Interesting to see a black skinhead in the crew..Anyone know how common this was back then?..

That's Danny Eccles, no mistake.

In the Lewisham area we had one or two black blokes and black girls in our bunch (can't call it a firm or a mob because we weren't that cohesive). I used to meet a small bunch of blokes up West from time to time and one of their number was Fred Dove whose parents were from somewhere in West Africa. He did some photos for 'Yell'.

 

[Man-of-Mystery]

Originally Posted by raging_rapid

Much of what I've written above, comes out of observations from "The Soul Stylists" book I'd just been reading and also, in the spirit of 69 book, by George Marshall.

Once an idea gains currency it becomes the accepted truth. That doesn't mean that it actually is the truth, just that it is the 'accepted truth'. This thing about Crombies not coming along until the 'suedehead era' is one such 'accepted truth'. I can certainly speak for the scene in S E London when I say that Crombie-style overcoats were around at the time of cropped hair.

George Marshall is a Scot writing with hindsight about a scene I don't believe he was part of. Spirit of 69 is more about the revival than the original era. If he recalls the late arrival of Crombies that may well be because they started as a London fashion.

By the way, to those of us who grew our hair in 1970 there was no such thing as the 'suedehead era'.

 

[raging_rapid]

Originally Posted by albion

Here's another pic of Chelsea...looks very much like Danny Eccles in the middle.
Interesting to see a black skinhead in the crew..Anyone know how common this was back then?..
I knew a few black skinheads in the 80's.

You guys look very smart. Look, there's a Crombie too (third in from left). I notice most of the 501s back then were a lot darker than the bleached crap people were wearing in the 1980s onwards (punk influenced no doubt?). Looks like most of you are wearing 8 hole boots? The hair seems varied in length, was this merging into suedehead perhaps?

Tell me, do you know if the Ivy League shop in the West End was still around by this time?

Its funny, in 2000 to 2002, I used to live with a bunch of West Indians in a share house in Wandsworth. They didn't mind my music much, but they were all into Soca (which I think sounds pretty horrid). They used to laugh at me for listening to music their old man would listen to, but still enjoyed it in reality. What's really interesting is, just like then, they spend a great deal of time, on their personal appearance, hours at the Barber, fussy about clothes, etc.