• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • We would like to welcome House of Huntington as an official Affiliate Vendor. Shop past season Drake's, Nigel Cabourn, Private White V.C. and other menswear luxury brands at exceptional prices below retail. Please visit the Houise of Huntington thread and welcome them to the forum.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Mod to Suedehead

Lasttye

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
1,481
Reaction score
75
I do not know who this Jim Ferguson is, But due to the illustrations in the Nick Night book, a lot of present day skinheads treat it like gospel, People think because its in a book , it must be right.
What people have to realise is the book was written long after the originals. so a lot of facts are lost in time, Also he does not take into account of the regional differences.
 

Ancillotti

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
20
Reaction score
5
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery
from http://forthesuits.wordpress.com/

Regardless of what was written by Jim Ferguson in the fashion notebook featured in Nick Knight's "Skinhead", the Crombie was always a skinhead coat. I'm not bringing it up to be malicious, there is just too much information (and photographic evidence at that) for the claim to be believable.


Would anyone like to describe the winter of '67-'68 Crombie look for skinheads (albeit not yet named)?
My mates would wear a similar coat that year, with Tootal scarves, Ben Shermans, mohair, and lightweight shoes, but were definitely Mods and would never progress to being Skins. They saw skinheads as wearing macs or 'rougher' coats.
 

Lasttye

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
1,481
Reaction score
75
I can only talk for myself in 68 we was wearing fly front Macs, in 69 we progressed onto Crombie's, We called them Crombies.. at the time we would have been unaware that Crombie was a coat maker.

The one i had made was heavy wool i suppose.. and warm unlike a real present day Crombie.
It had narrow lapels, Three pockets, including the ticket pocket, the coat was well wasted, the rear vent was fairly long, the lining was dark red, We also got some of the lining and used it as a top pocket hanky, Loved that coat, looked brill with a Red Fred Perry.
 

Alex Roest

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
222
Reaction score
1
Originally Posted by Get Smart
this is the first time the question really popped up to me, but WHO was Jim Ferguson? other than the guy that wrote the fashion part of Nick Knight's book. what was his "pedigree" to write as such an authority on the subject?

Of course as you know Jason he was an interviewee for The Soul Stylists as well:

The first time I saw Skinheads was when Chelsea came to play Leicester just before X-mas '68. They were wearing mainly Levi's jeans. They were kind of Mod but a bit grubby looking. They had on donkey jackets and boots. Not DM's but any kind of boots. Couldn't see the shirts because it was winter but they looked kind of East European, the drabbest crowd I had ever seen. Also they didn't have short hair. It's become a myth that they all had short hair. They didn't. It was fairly short but with a bit on the side. There was a definite overlap between them and Mod.
 

Get Smart

Don't Crink
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
12,102
Reaction score
271
right, I guess I'm wondering more specifically, who he was...if he was just an outside observer that was interested in the youth trend, an active participant, a journalist, etc

I know for myself, growing up, that section of the book was also a "bible" of sorts and I just took it at face value that it was all "correct", which I suppose a lot of it is, but there's definite discrepancies compared to the recollections of Originals on this thread about the same time period.
 

Alex Roest

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
222
Reaction score
1
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/34b67802-8...#axzz1LVOiPmuu

Please respect FT.com's ts&cs and copyright policy which allow you to: share links; copy content for personal use; & redistribute limited extracts. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights or use this link to reference the article - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/34b67802-8...#ixzz1LVcv42Sp


Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2011. You may share using our article tools. Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.
 

Get Smart

Don't Crink
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
12,102
Reaction score
271
^^ from the brief bit I could see before asking me to log in (articles only avail to subscribers) it looks like it has answers on who Ferguson is...but I cant read it (not being a subscriber)
 

Alex Roest

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
222
Reaction score
1
Originally Posted by Get Smart
right, I guess I'm wondering more specifically, who he was...if he was just an outside observer that was interested in the youth trend, an active participant, a journalist, etc

The man was a participant alright, check the very last part of The button-down types in The Soul Stylists:

For me it felt great. You're amongst your own kind with the music and the clothes. I loved it. So when I read these things about fascism, it's been stolen, they've stolen something that meant so much to me
 

Man-of-Mystery

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
4,901
Reaction score
2,766
Alex, I'm afraid none of those links works for me.

[I am going to have to read JF's contribution in full before I make any further comments about him.]
 

Lasttye

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
1,481
Reaction score
75
The very early.. what was to became Skinheads 67/68, Had nothing in common with the Mods, Jungle Greens, Army Boots, Donkey jackets, heavy Cardigans, We just wore this stuff without thinking, Once we started wearing BDs, Royals, Harringtons, Suits etc, It was obvious we was copying the Mod look, A couple of my mates would call it the Ivy Look.
 

Man-of-Mystery

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
4,901
Reaction score
2,766
Alex, do any of the items in which Jim Ferguson appears give any indication of where he was living at the time?
 

Man-of-Mystery

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
4,901
Reaction score
2,766
Originally Posted by Lasttye
The very early.. what was to became Skinheads 67/68, Had nothing in common with the Mods, Jungle Greens, Army Boots, Donkey jackets, heavy Cardigans, We just wore this stuff without thinking, Once we started wearing BDs, Royals, Harringtons, Suits etc, It was obvious we was copying the Mod look, A couple of my mates would call it the Ivy Look.

All noted. I don't say you're wrong - far from it, that's the way it all looked to you - but I did see a definite transition from the 'totters' in S E London to the skinheads - some of the same people could be seen around. It felt like a smooth transition to me - one day 'skinhead' was an insult, the next day it didn't bother us. One day we were wearing monkey jackets, the next day someone turned up in a Harrington, it seemed to go like that...
 

Alex Roest

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
222
Reaction score
1
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery
Alex, do any of the items in which Jim Ferguson appears give any indication of where he was living at the time?

I found the link by typing JF and FT into the Google search box, the article is nothing spectacular really but I knew via The Soul Stylists book he wrote for the FT. As can be read in an earlier quote above he was living in Leicester at the time. The question arises how he would have known everything about early skinhead style (winter '68-'69 that is) when he only first saw skinheads just before X-mas '68...
 

Lasttye

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
1,481
Reaction score
75
Originally Posted by Man-of-Mystery
All noted. I don't say you're wrong - far from it, that's the way it all looked to you - but I did see a definite transition from the 'totters' in S E London to the skinheads - some of the same people could be seen around. It felt like a smooth transition to me - one day 'skinhead' was an insult, the next day it didn't bother us. One day we were wearing monkey jackets, the next day someone turned up in a Harrington, it seemed to go like that...
Smooth transition sounds right to me also. At school 67/68, We just wore boots and greens, It was all cheap kit from Army surplus/Cloths shops that we wore, I will be honest it was only when i left school July 69, and got a job that i considered myself a Skinhead. The Army surplus/Cloths store, I am sure every area had them, My mate worked after School in 68 at our local one in Willesden Lane, Kilburn, He would keep us updated with any new kit that came in, The shop would sell Army kit, Work-ware, Dickies Jeans etc, Once we left school we sort of moved on to proper cloth shops. For example Levis could only be got at Authorised dealers back then, the Army surplus shops could not sell them. Also once Doctor Martins came on the scene, we no longer went to the Surplus shop for boots. Its funny at one point we get our kit from Army Surplus shops, Next it was up market to the Ivy Shop Richmond.
 

bunty

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
373
Reaction score
28
Originally Posted by Alex Roest
The man was a participant alright, check the very last part of The button-down types in The Soul Stylists:

For me it felt great. You're amongst your own kind with the music and the clothes. I loved it. So when I read these things about fascism, it's been stolen, they've stolen something that meant so much to me



I wasn't there in the day so I'll leave you chaps to sort out the 'facts' (With what knowledge I have though, I must admit to raising my eyebrow at a few things)

But anybody that feels that passionate about it all is a top bloke in my book.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 55 35.5%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 60 38.7%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 17 11.0%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 27 17.4%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 28 18.1%

Forum statistics

Threads
505,180
Messages
10,579,211
Members
223,888
Latest member
alitamartin07
Top