Mod to Suedehead

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Spirit of 69, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

    Messages:
    3,733
    Likes Received:
    801
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Your Last Battlefield
    The book:

    Current word count sitting at 27,000+. I want to get over 30,000 by the close of play today.

    Many apologies for posting the attached pictures again. I believe they come from a collection of clippings given by Della Sutton to Roy (lasttye) some time ago. I am having a lot of trouble finding out the source of each - which newspaper, what date, etc. The one that says "skinheads began last year" must by from some time in 1970. It also mentions Suedeheads.

    Any ideas, anyone?

    article - IMG_1044.jpg article - IMG_1056.jpg article - IMG_1046.jpg article - IMG_1051.jpg article - IMG_1052.jpg article - IMG_1053.jpg article - IMG_1056.jpg

    article - IMG_1050.jpg
     


  2. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

    Messages:
    3,733
    Likes Received:
    801
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Your Last Battlefield
    Speaking of newspaper articles, my being at uni means I can get access to journal archives going way back. Today I looked up the article by Gloria Emerson, which she wrote following an interview with me. Gloria Emerson, who unfortunately is no longer with us, went on to be a highly respected journalist. When I looked at the article today, however, I realised that she made some absolutely embarrassing mistakes (embarrassing for me, if for no one else!). I'll post a pic of it below, but first a few comments of correction.

    Col.1 "He keeps his hair cut so short that a pinkish scalp shows." Well, back then I never had it that short, as all my photos will attest. I have no idea how she imagined she could see my scalp through my college boy cut.

    Col.1 "I started wearing boots four or five years ago." Jeez, I have no recollection of saying anything like that. I hadn't worn boots until the year before. Gloria's shorthand must have failed her!

    Col.1 "He was a Mod in 1960." I was 10 in 1960, and I would never have claimed to have been a Mod. I hadn't even heard of them in 1960.

    Col.1 "The boots he wears must be an American style called Dr. Martins." er...

    Col.2 "He likes to brag he was fighting motor cycle gangs when he was 10 and a mod." Oh for fuck's sake! No I didn't!

    Col.4 "There is also a skinhead pop music group in Britain..." Well, guess who that is!

    I'm wondering if it is worthwhile telling the NYT 48 years later that she got all this wrong?

    NYT1.png
     


  3. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

    Messages:
    3,733
    Likes Received:
    801
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Your Last Battlefield
    By the way, I remember the incident in Woolworths. I was with a bunch of lads I only knew vaguely, from North London.
     


  4. Donkey Jacket

    Donkey Jacket Senior member

    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    486
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Sounds like typical press sensationalism to me M-O-M, perhaps she had no choice but to exaggerate it a bit? saying you kept a smart haircut perhaps would be as entertaining.
     


  5. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

    Messages:
    3,733
    Likes Received:
    801
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Your Last Battlefield
    I'm just rather surprised, given her rep as a journo. Oh well, I guess she was still starting out back then.
     


  6. Donkey Jacket

    Donkey Jacket Senior member

    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    486
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Yeah i think that is the case, we have to tow the line with any job at first then when we gain seniority i guess you can start to do things your own way.

    It does seem to be a trend with skinheads and other working class youth cults of that time though, but that is true even today.
     


  7. pressuredrop

    pressuredrop Active Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    26
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Location:
    West of the Rockies
    2nd & 6th photo, pre '73 as Harry Hull was headmaster of Bourne School, Ruislip until then, according to his obit.

    Also found this while looking up the Bourne School disco incident:
    tumblr_inline_mk36eiasgq1rgn2sf.jpg
     


  8. Donkey Jacket

    Donkey Jacket Senior member

    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    486
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2015
    Seen that pic on ballroom blitz but not heard the story, very smart lady.
     


  9. Aces and Eights

    Aces and Eights Senior member

    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    54
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Location:
    NW Kent / South London and Essex borders
    They are all from the Daily Mirror. I did have the exact date of the fella and girl pics and I am sure they were late 69 and the others followed in 70

    I need to look where I have this noted somewhere and get back to you
     


  10. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

    Messages:
    3,733
    Likes Received:
    801
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Your Last Battlefield
    I've emailed the Mirror, but please do see what you can find. Thanks mate.
     


  11. benj84

    benj84 Senior member

    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    88
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2016
    this is Feb 3rd 1970. Its on page 332 of forum

    817203-d66363465a44393ed724276f7621e9ed.jpg
     


  12. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

    Messages:
    3,733
    Likes Received:
    801
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Your Last Battlefield


  13. Ivyskin89

    Ivyskin89 Senior member

    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    In response to Bela Kun

    1. Modern sta prest repros tend to come either in toothpaste white (Mikkel Rude) or pale beige (Warrior & Relco's 'cream'). Will yours be available in the original ivory/off-white colour seen in some vintage pics?

    Our sta prest will be available in a paper white color. If I can find an off white that has a decent ratio of polyester to cotton I'll try it out. Right now there is only one company I can find that offers a white in a 50/50 poly cotton mix, which is the ratio that was most common for sta prest clothing in the 60's. Hopefully we will progress to the point where we can afford to customize fabrics for better colors, textures, and weaves.

    2. The original 60s Sta Prest were available in colours that might be less popular today, such as bottle green. Will you take them into consideration, and what other colours do you have planned?

    Yes bottle green is one of my favorite colors for trousers. Currently I can't get bottle green twill in a 50/50 poly cotton, but I'm going to be experimenting using a poly/hemp fabric that comes in a very nice bottle green twill. The ratios are 77% hemp to 23% recycled poly. We'll see how the creases hold up. It's been my experience that as long as there is even just a bit of poly in the fabric, the crease will be permanent, though maybe not as sharp as the 50/50 mix. Time will tell..
    Black, Navy, charcoal, gray, burgundy, sand, ice blue, mint green, and other pastels I all plan to use, just as long as I can find them. I'd of course really like to do some POW check and tartans as well.

    3. Levi's briefly reissued their Sta Prest in about 2011. The new version was often criticised as being much slimmer than the original strides. Based on your findings, can you confirm that - or was it more a case of "I gained some weight over the past 40 years"? How do you rate those Levi's repros overall?

    I ordered a pair of tapered fit levi's sta prest from Stuarts London back around that time. I ended up giving them away. They were far too low rise. My shirt wouldn't stay tucked, nor could I wear them with braces as it would make them dig into the crotch. With any of this low rise rubbish they produce today if you try to wear a belt to keep them on the waist, it looks as if the back belt loop is clinging on for dear life while the rest of the trousers sag down to the hips. Forget wearing a t-shirt, if you bend over your bum will show. I didn't mind the fit of the leg, it was probably a bit slimmer than the vintage sta prest slacks but I know levi's did a trim cut and a "Nuvo" fit back in the 60's that was similar. My main issue over all was the rise. The fabric was a bit soft and though there was a crease in them, it was hardly sharp. They were easier to fold like regular jeans than to fold along the crease. Of course all the repro stuff lacks the quality of the vintage stuff.
    A friend of mine had the 511 sta prest. The leg was slimmer and the fabric was the wrong fiber ratios. I didn't mind the way they looked except for the rise.
    I never saw a pair of the LVC sta prest cords in person. From pictures they seem to also be lower rise than actual vintage ones.
    Levi's did a pair called the 306 which in the picture look to be an exact replica of the 518 slim fits. 518 was a jean that levi's produced in the 60's that also came in a sta prest format. I would of liked to have ordered a pair of the 306's but they were rare limited edition and were several hundred dollars. Now incredibly hard to find.
    0_0_2350_3350.jpg

    4. In what ways does the cut of cheap sta prest from mod/skinhead outlets such as Warrior and Relco differ from the original? What else would you criticise about these trousers?

    It's always the fit and the fabric. Of course the cheap contemporary trousers are slimmer and lower rise. To me the rise is the most important factor, as it is key in achieving the classic 20'th century silhouette. Trousers that sit on the waist create a more masculine silhouette for a man by accentuating the V taper of the back when he tucks his shirt in. For women high rise trousers create a more feminine silhouette by accentuating the hour glass shape. Of course lifting weights will enhance these qualities even more, but I digress..

    I don't dig the colors or the quality of the fabrics these companies use. A friend of mine had a pair of warrior sta prest that fell apart on him. The clasp came loose and tor through the fabric and a few seems came undone.

    I feel as if these companies are producing mod/skinhead costumes. A lot of it either looks too cookie cutter or clowny in my opinion.
    My goal is to return some integrity to the clothes. These should be garments that are aimed towards the collegiates and young professionals but are coveted by mods and skinheads for they're impeccable style and construction.
    It's my understanding that in the 60's the Ivy Shop and the Squire Shop were not "skinhead" shops per se, but skinheads were a phenomenon of these shops. That's more like what I hope to achieve with my brand being sold in Bobby From Boston.

    The Ivy Threads/Nik Louis garments all come with a life time guarantee and complimentary tailoring. If you are not completely satisfied for any reason what so ever, we will issue a full refund.
    Not sure if any of the skinhead costume brands offer this kind of service.
    0_0_5559_7148.jpg

    5. Always been curious about the exact fabrics used for the original Sta Prest. What were they and will you use the same mix?

    As I mentioned in response to your first question, the original mix that was most commonly used by Levi's and most companies at the time was 50/50 poly/cotton. Though there were some that may have been more cotton than poly or vice versa, and some that used rayon instead of cotton. I'm pretty sure levi's also did 50/50 poly/wool for winter weight sta prest. I know other companies did.

    These 50/50 fabrics also came in a variety of different weaves, textures, weights, and colors. I remember I used to own a pair of bronze/blue tonic levi's sta prest. This was many years ago (I kick myself thinking of all the stuff I wish I hadn't sold.)
    I'm not sure how they did it, but all the fabrics back then were far sturdier. Even if they were very light weight and soft, they wouldn't crinkle or loose they're strength regardless of how much you wore or washed them.

    Diversitex is the only company I know of now that mass produces the 50/50 poly cotton fabric for Fabric.com. This fabric works well for the sta prest, but only comes in twill format. I'd really like to do some sta prest in a hopsack weave, though that will probably have to wait until I can afford to customize my own fabrics, unless I come across a fabric company wise enough to produce such a material.

    6. More generally speaking, are you planning a repro that's 100% faithful to the original, or will you add some quirk, change or even improvement?

    It's hard to improve on a garment as pure as the original Levi's or Lee sta prest trousers. But comparing the sample I have from Martin Greenfield to the vintage pairs I gave them to repro, the construction of the Martin Greenfield trousers is much cleaner. I will be staying true to the original pattern and get as close as I can to the colors/aesthetics with the fabrics I can find now. There will be the addition of a hidden coin pocket at the seam of the waistband. We have a pair I call the 007's that are on the same pattern but will have some fancier details and will be produced in hemp/rayon and linen as well as sta prest format.

    Here are some samples I've had made. The blue and red are the classic sta prest and the ones on the right are the 007's. As you can see they have frogs mouth pockets with a rounded edge, flap back pockets and daks adjusters instead of belt loops
    IMG_20160207_172004.jpg


    7. Are you looking for distributors in the UK and mainland Europe to spare buyers unreasonable shipping and customs charges?

    That would be ideal, and I'm open to working with anyone who wants to help rep the brand and get it in stores. Though right now we are a very small outfit and can only produce modest quantities for the store I currently work for, Bobby From Boston.

    8. I expect the price to be rather steep. Any idea yet?

    I'm aiming for the 175 to 225 range. It depends a lot on the cost of the fabric. Custom orders may be more expensive due to the factories sample pricing.
    This is the cost of MADE IN USA. Ideally I'd like to beat the prices of other companies. For example, our shirts are made by the same factory that makes Thom Browne, yet we sell ours for 1/3 of the price and offer a great deal of customer service. JPress also has shirts made in the same factory, though I'm not sure if they offer a satisfaction guarantee.

    9. When do you expect them to hit the market?

    I'm hoping to have a few options available with in 6 months to a year. It would be sooner but I'm doing this all out of pocket from what I make at my other jobs and I need to order enough pairs to meet the factories minimum. I have to find a balance between feeding myself and feeding the business.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017 at 1:01 PM


  14. LeviStubbsTears

    LeviStubbsTears Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    141
    Joined:
    May 16, 2016
    Those look and sound like some beautiful trousers, esp the ones with the frog mouth and side adjusters. With that said I'm definitely priced out of these so I wouldn't take my preferences that deeply into consideration. That's not a backhanded way of saying they're too much, it's just you're producing a premium product. I'm just not trying to be the guy that gives an undue amount of feedback pre production when he has no realistic intention of purchasing the final product. I would assume that outside of the MtS crowd there is also a demand for these in the more Trad-Ivy demographic as well.
     


  15. ojaw

    ojaw Senior member

    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    99
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2012
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Interesting to learn about the limits of my sartorial range, ie my surprise at finding out that a 50/50 mix would be used to make a premium pair of pants. How big is the demographic that will scoop these up?
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by