1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Mod to Suedehead

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by Spirit of 69, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

    Messages:
    266
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Location:
    The Big Smoke
    That would add an inch at the bottom. Not ideal - two inches would be perfect - but definitely worth a try. Cheers.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. skinny legs

    skinny legs Senior member

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Location:
    Wimbledon, London
    The second wave skins my way, seemed to have scant regard for the historical lineage between Mod and Skinhead. Any chance going- notably outside Tiffanys in Wimbledon, when the Secret Affair played there- a good 100 boneheads waited outside and smashed the Mods everywhere.
    A few of the skins there that night, were 70s Teds a year or so previous, including one fella who went on the join the foreign legion.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

    Messages:
    3,619
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Your Last Battlefield
    Mind you, I wouldn't have crossed the road to see Secret Affair, let alone travelled to Wimbledon and risked a slapping.
     
  4. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

    Messages:
    266
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Location:
    The Big Smoke
    I don't follow. Are you referring to the lad standing next to the scooter?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
  5. covskin

    covskin Senior member

    Messages:
    911
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Location:
    England
    ^ no, just a general comment on the 60s love/80s hate that goes on here. I remember both too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
    2 people like this.
  6. skinny legs

    skinny legs Senior member

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Location:
    Wimbledon, London
    The way I remember it being in SW London, in 1980, was a lot of young tough kids, and wanna be tough kids too, almost all at once, shaving their heads and sticking on a Fred Perry and a chunky cardigan, largely because it made them look harder. I think they viewed Mods as a bit effinate, and no amount of explaining that Mods were part of the same family had next to no effect- in one ear, out the other. They just wanted other groups to row with.
    Funnily enough they didn't pester the black kids very much- who were mostly Soulboys; though there was once a big black and white standoff between skins and locals at Battersea Devas.
    Mitcham Fair was different in that it Skin onto Skin fights, normally Mitcham v Croydon.
    Im guessing Tom jumped off at the right time revival wise.
    I know one thing, you wouldn't want too many of facially tattooed skins in your trivial persuit team
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

    Messages:
    266
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Location:
    The Big Smoke
    Ah, ok. By the way, there's a reeeeally nice pair of size 9 oxblood Astronaut shoes going on ebay (not mine, so I'm not spamming). Just made him an offer and received a counter-offer for 64 quid. I reckon he's prepared to go even lower.

    The truth is, I can't afford another pair of shoes right now - I just got stupid/greedy for a minute. But someone else might fancy them:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-G...980699?hash=item2eed22dd5b:g:~YgAAOSwxvxW8Zd1
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
  8. con man

    con man Senior member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    I don't really want to get into this bashing of Second wave Skinheads,
    It's probably all been said before,
    But being of that generation, I feel I have to defend it,
    I'am not a fan of facial tattoos ( saying that, when I first went to a tattoo parlour at 16, I went to have a cobweb on my neck, fortunately, he wouldn't do any below the wrist or above the collar bone, so just had homemade ones covered up).
    I do think the photographer activally sort out, those with facial tattoos, I never saw that many at that time except for Borstal/ detention centre spots.
    Another thing I have to say, who knows, what kind of lives these kids were living to do that to themselves, it almost seems to me, like self harm.
    I know kids of other generations, would have had the same sort of issues to, ( if not worse ) so that doesn't completley explain it.
    Also in the 60' s there was near on, if not, full employment, but by the early 80's there was 3 million on the dole and believe me, by the time I left school officially in 83 ( I say that, because I was expelled a year earlier) there wasn't much chance of a decent job when you left, YOP or YTS seemed the only option, so we were as we thought at the time, "The No Future " generation.
    So there was a lot of anger and resentment amoung the youth at the time and therefore, more of a reason to rebel, to stand out from the crowd and say "fuck you " to the system, as it were.
    As a 12/ 13 year old in 79, I honestly didn't really know much about the original period. But my look would have been nearer to the original look thanks to Two Tone, than it was a couple or so years later.
    My only source of information, was the Richard Allen books, that my brother had.
    It was only when Nick Knight book came out, that I really got any kind of insight into the original period,
    But by this time Two Tone had died and Oi! Had taken over as the music for Skinheads and along with it came a Punk like attitude and no doubt some Punks and those of a particular political persuation, started to become Skinheads hence the more deliberate extreme look.
    It is unfortunate that things went that way, but they did and like it or lump it that is the public view of Skinheads, a lot won't remember or know about the original look, only those of us in the know, so to speak.
    I don't think slagging other generations off, is at all helpful and serves no purpose, it just how it was.
    I'am probably in danger of repeating myself, but no doubt the original Mods looked down their noses at late 60's Skinheads to.
    Also a few pages back someone said Skinheads didn't have tattoos, but I'm sure I have seen some photos of that period where they did, 2 Spring to mind.
    One of a fella with his girlfriend in black and white and standing in front of what likes like some kind of municipal building,
    And another of 2 blokes one a Skinhead and his mate who has got glasses on, at Butlins or somewhere and again in black and white.
    You may well ask why I have brought this up,
    The reason being, like the facial tattoos they were probably few and far between and therefore, you wouldn't say all original Skinheads were scruffy, tattooed Herbert's, but it seems to be ok to discribe all of my generation as being such.
    We weren't all like that, at all and those of us, who did follow it passionately, long after every one else had become a casual and went raving etc
    We knew the score and history,
    Though I do have to agree, we did have fallings out with Mods and to this day I don't know why.
    Maybe that was the Punk influence thing.
     
    6 people like this.
  9. con man

    con man Senior member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    


    Exactly
     
  10. Bela Kun

    Bela Kun Senior member

    Messages:
    266
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Location:
    The Big Smoke
    That's hardly ever mentioned. The 'aspirational' style of the original skinheads was at least partly based on unprecedented wealth. Not half as much as the whole 'psychedelic experience' enjoyed by middle class students, but still: there was near full employment, kids had some disposable income, there was a degree of upward mobility and the feeling that you were going places.

    Things haven't been quite so rosy since, and I imagine things were a lot harder for kids in 1980. It seems natural this would be reflected in the style, which on the whole was more 'austere' even if we leave aside the face tattoo brigade.

    I'm too young to have seen either period, so I'm happy to be put straight if I'm talking rubbish.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
    4 people like this.
  11. flyfronted

    flyfronted Senior member

    Messages:
    555
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    If you was 18 and of Mod / Skin lineage in 1980 you would have been a soul boy / casual not some parafin with tatts on his face and super tight bleached jeans
     
  12. con man

    con man Senior member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    If you were 18 and of Mod / Skinhead lineage, you would have been a Mod or Skinhead,
    Where does soul boy or casual come into it?
    It is possible and have seen it with my own eyes that some Skinheads, who were Skinheads for 5 minutes at that time would have become casuals, not because it was a generic follow on from Skinhead, but because they liked the football aggro side of things and you stood out like a sore thumb with a Skinhead.
    The feeling of being a Skinhead is in your bones and blood it's not about what fashion is next, I know that sounds like a cliche, but it s true and to quote another cliche,
    "it's about the passion and not the fashion"
    And to me wearing trainers and track suits and golfing wear and having ridiculus wedge head hair cuts and mullets has nothing to do with Mod or Skinhead.
    The truth is, if it weren't for the Skinheads of the 80's and the scootering fraternity, this forum would only have a few originals on here talking about the 60's early 70's. Nobody else would be interested.
    Because those who were into it in the 80's and later. come on here to read the opinions and stories of the first Skinheads and value it,
    If you go to any event nowadays that is Skinhead oriented, you will find it will be attended and organised by Mainly People who were Skinheads in the 80's along with a small measure of originals and youngsters.
    What I will say, though is........
    There are more turning up now, who are middle aged, lost their hair, decided to look back at a part of their youth and decided to buy cheap table cloth checked shirts, bright coloured braces, jeans , ox blood docs , red harringtons and dress up on a weekend.
    Now I have no real problem with that, each to his own, who am I to critisise.
    But I wouldn't mind betting that most of them, were those Skinheads who were Skinheads for 6 to 12 months ( 5 minutes ) in the late 70', early 80's and souled out ( do you see what I did there haha!!! ) and became casuals and soul boys.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    2 people like this.
  13. con man

    con man Senior member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    a[/

    And also what's this dig about super tight jeans
    Personally I hate/ hated tight jeans and have never worn them.
    Some Skinheads wore them so what!
    A lot of youngsters wore them, Mods, Soul Boys, Casual/ Trendies and every day Joe and his girlfriend ( normals)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
  14. covskin

    covskin Senior member

    Messages:
    911
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Location:
    England
    

    This mod/skin lineage thing, so did 18 year olds who were soulboys/casuals and not mods/skinheads in 1980 really believe this? They would have been young children in the 60s when the only mods/skinheads that seem to matter to you were around. What exactly was the connection other than than being 18 years old 10 years later and looking around at clothes/music. This whole lineage model seems very tenuous and after the fact to me, I am pretty sure an 18 year old soulboy or casual (newly minted - he would never have been a mod or skinhead in your model, remember) would have laughed had he been told this at the time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  15. con man

    con man Senior member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    This mod/skin lineage thing, so did 18 year olds who were soulboys/casuals and not mods/skinheads in 1980 really believe this? They would have been young children in the 60s when the only mods/skinheads that seem to matter to you were around. What exactly was the connection other than than being 18 years old 10 years later and looking around at clothes/music. This whole lineage model seems very tenuous and after the fact to me, I am pretty sure an 18 year old soulboy or casual (newly minted - he would never have been a mod or skinhead in your model, remember) would have laughed had he been told this at the time.


    Very good point,
    Most Casuals who would have been 18 in 1980, would have more than likely just been casuals and nothing before that, possibly have been Skinheads, been into 2tone or Punk and would have worn the very same clothes that are being derided, they would have highly unlikely looked like early Skinheads and definitely not the first Mods.
    To be fair.......
    I can see a little possibility of resemblance with the 80's Mods and Casuals/ Soulboys, the main thing that sticks in my memory is the wedge head haircuts, that some Mods had, (Paul Weller/ style council )Fred Perry's, trainers are something that all 3 of those groups would of had in common.
    Maybe this is why a lot of Skinheads did fight with Mods back then, 80's Mod was as far removed from the originals as were Skinheads, The Jam, Purple Hearts, Secret Affair etc, is nothing like like early Mods love for Jazz and R&B as much as Skinhead Reggae is as far removed from Oi!,
    And therefore that's possibly why there was a deep divide between the 2 cults by the time 80's came around.
    Don't forget it wasn't just Skinheads hating Mods, the feeling was mutual, so both groups needed a history lesson.
    And like I said before, the proper original Mods of the late 50's early 60's, the top notch lads and lasses, the trend setters, the inovators, would have looked at early Skinheads street style as ugly, scruffy and had no connection to them what so ever.
    I think it is just a fantasy of early Skinheads to correlate themselves with Mods.........
    Yes, later Mods (tickets) say after 62/64, definetly......
    but not the first Mods.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Man-of-Mystery

    Man-of-Mystery Senior member

    Messages:
    3,619
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Your Last Battlefield
    

    I'm nearly 66 now, so I was in my teens in the 1960s. I don't see my own teenage tribal (for want of a better word) affiliation going back to the earliest Mods, because by the time anyone had heard about Mods in the bit of 'the North' where I was, it was already a big thing down South - seaside rucks and so on - already well removed from the first 'Modernists'. The first Mods I actually knew were mates of my mate next door - I've told this story before. He was about a year older than me, his mates were about the same and older. I was about 14 and I went to a couple of their parties, got rather frozen out by the girls, felt a bit of a lemon, so although I felt that it would be cool to have a peer group like that, I kinda turned my back on that particular lot. When I was 16 I started going to local hops. That would have been in 1966-67, I would have been 16-going-on-17. Although Mods had been out of the news for some time, no moral panic in the newspapers about seaside riots, I found that Mods still existed. I quickly identified with them, spent a lot of time wangling an outfit to fit in with them, went to their Soul clubs, learned the dances, yadda yadda...

    Then in 1968 I moved down to London, hung around with youngsters who looked most like I did, who dressed in an identifiably late Mod style. The story how the 1969 Skinhead look evolved from what we were already wearing is well documented. I know (of) people who had the look all the way through that era, shared many of the evolving Skinhead fashions, and still referred to themselves as Mods; I also knew kids who had looked like min-mods in 1968 and full-blown Skins by the end of 1969; I also knew kids who entered the skinhead crowd fresh.

    No 'fantasy'. As it happened with me.
     
    3 people like this.
  17. flyfronted

    flyfronted Senior member

    Messages:
    555
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Half of 'Skinhead's ' clobber had come from the same source as 'Mod ' ie US Ivy league . A 16 year old in manchester doesnt need to know where his clobber originated from but Skinhead was without doubt just a continuation as was Soul boy as was casual ... every generation thinks they are the first and unique but when you look back you can see its all the same thing
     
  18. flyfronted

    flyfronted Senior member

    Messages:
    555
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    The Skins of 1968 - 1970 were into it as a fashion . Every high st had a shop selling the gear it wasnt a sub cult it was the fashion by 71 it was dead . Middle aged blokes in DMs and Braces look as silly as Middle aged Casuals at the match . The Ivy League look however has endured and will never die and if a older chap wants to have a inch of red sock showing between his Aldens and strides then fair play those that know will know
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    3 people like this.
  19. con man

    con man Senior member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    

    Wasn't meant to be a pop at any one,
    What I meant was, I would imagine say by 1969 if the average age of a Skinhead was say 15/16,
    I would again imagine, (obviously I was not there) that early Mods, proper Mods, those who were movers and shakers, not school kiddies, probably around 18 say in 1962, by the time it would have been 1969 they would have been in the early to mid 20 years and all those young Skinheads, would have probably just looked liked wannabes.
    But those young Skinheads, might have aspired to be like the Mods," fantasy" was probably wrong wording.
    A bit like original Skinheads who left it in 1970, look down their noses at later 70's Skinheads again just a few years later.
    I would actually like to hear what early Mods did think of Skinheads.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
  20. con man

    con man Senior member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    


    I can't disagree with any of that,
    for a short period in 1979- 1981, the Skinhead look of the Two Tone kiddies was also fashionable and you could buy the stuff off the shelf.
    But those of us, who were sad enough haha!!!, to carry on with it, it did become more of a, to coin another corny cliche. "A Way of Life "
    And by the mid 80' s those of us who were still into, started to look back towards the original period and dropped Oi!
    But the clothes were hard to come by, especially in places like where I'm from, charity and second shops weren't as prolific as now and no internet,
    And no decent replica stuff.
    If I could of got my hands on Brutus and decent Ben Sherman's etc in 1985, I would have worn them, believe me.
    Obviously there were those who went down the political root, but we don't need to get into that.
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by