Mod to Suedehead

[browniecj]



Did you guys ever run into gangs with guns back then? as i understand it guns were more common and less restricted in England before 1988, obviously never as accessible in the states but I thought I would ask anyway.

I have already written about Brighton,when a car load of Streatham turned up.The Skin(in the front seat)got out and waved a sawn-off.This was later used-so I heard.Some of the older Mobs could get hold of Shooters(in London).I personally saw my life flash in front of me,when I accepted a lift one night.As I climbed into the back of a Motor.I was staring down two barrels.Luckily for me,they were friendly.

 

[browniecj]

...

I think it would be the accent more than the fact that they were squaddies.


You could tell Squaddies a mile off-so it was more than the Accent.As I wrote,they were fresh out of Training,so originally they thought they would take the locals on.

There were two Pubs in Guildford(The Horse and Groom and The Seven Stars) that the Squaddies and the WRACS went to(they were blown up in the 70s).The Squaddies came from the Guards Depot Pirbright,and the WRACS,Stoughton.How it all started was,a gang of Squaddies were going back to the Train Station-through the Underpass.They met a Skinhead and his Girlfriend coming the other way.The Skinhead was badly beaten and his Girlfriend was mauled about.The Girlfriend managed to get away and stagger into the Napoleon Pub(this was a big Skinhead Pub then).The Squaddies were chased back to the Train Station and caught..How do I know this Story,I was in the Napoleon when the Girl came in.The fighting went on for a couple of years.

 

[riton23]

for a lovely pair of brown hawkins :

http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/Vintage...?pt=UK_Men_s_Shoes&hash=item27dae70c73&_uhb=1

 

[Sirryacus]

I have already written about Brighton,when a car load of Streatham turned up.The Skin(in the front seat)got out and waved a sawn-off.This was later used-so I heard.Some of the older Mobs could get hold of Shooters(in London).I personally saw my life flash in front of me,when I accepted a lift one night.As I climbed into the back of a Motor.I was staring down two barrels.Luckily for me,they were friendly.

I do believe I caught that story but I'd honestly forgotten about it until you mentioned it again, always been guns in my home growing up but I personally don't mess with them my dad has some for home protection which stay locked in a gun cabinet, i've never experienced having a gun pulled on me even though the media will have you believe it happens all the time here like we are in the wild west days.

Round my way, the weapons of choice were Stanley screwdrivers (the ones that would retract inwards and lock), Stanley box-cutter knives, Tube train handles, claw hammers(Stanley again), metal hair-combs, bayonets and kitchen knives. Stabbing or slashing with knives and hitting people in the head with heavy objects were the big things where I lived.

That is quite funny about the Stanley tools quite a bit with that brand around my house as they were the one of the premiere american companys for tools once upon a time but mainly known for their Tape measures, i've heard box cutters were commonly used here in the states back then as well but pretty much fell out of favor with the advent of what they call tactical folders(pocket knifes of a more deadly nature) but I do keep quite a few different vintage models of box cutters in my arsenal.

 

[roytonboy]

roytonboy-"Squaddie Bashing" did go on.In Guildford,Woking and other areas near Barracks, there many instances of it,it was not just an odd brawl either.They were mainly youngsters that had just finished their Training-so were considered fair game.Skinheads were very territorial and if they heard a different Accent,that was it..At one point they were stopped going into those Town Centres because of the trouble.Dancehalls and Clubs never let them in because of the possibility of trouble.

I stand corrected! - There were no army barracks near us so it was never something that was ever mentioned. As always, the usual disclaimer about time and place/regional differences.

Interesting that you cite a particular incident as the spark for it in Guildford - my take on the term "sguaddie bashing" was that it was like "****-bashing" or "queer bashing" i.e. individuals were supposedly attacked simply for that particular identity, not some ongoing feud or 'bad blood'. I don't doubt that the latter two also did occur but probably on a much lesser scale than the press would have had us believe at the time. No doubt some of those occasions were as a direct result of people reading in the paper that "that was what skinheads do."

As an aside - I have read an account of the first Mods and Rockers trouble (Clacton) which stated that the town had a lot of young people, some who came on motorbikes, some on scooters who, bored because of the bad weather, caused trouble around the resort over a Bank Holiday week-end. However this was reported as trouble between those who came on motorbikes and those who arrived on scooters - Result? By the following Bank Holiday hundreds arrived looking for trouble between the two groups, so inevitably it happened.

 

[browniecj]

...

I stand corrected! - There were no army barracks near us so it was never something that was ever mentioned. As always, the usual disclaimer about time and place/regional differences.

Interesting that you cite a particular incident as the spark for it in Guildford - my take on the term "sguaddie bashing" was that it was like "****-bashing" or "queer bashing" i.e. individuals were supposedly attacked simply for that particular identity, not some ongoing feud or 'bad blood'. I don't doubt that the latter two also did occur but probably on a much lesser scale than the press would have had us believe at the time. No doubt some of those occasions were as a direct result of people reading in the paper that "that was what skinheads do."


It began that way,then afterwards if any Squaddies were found in groups up to 4/5 then they got jumped on,regardless.This was the "Squaddie Bashing"."Queer Bashing" did take place,we made some money out of "Door Supervising" a Pub.This was to stop other Skinheads coming in and having a go at the Gays-on their special Nights.I have written about this before.In Woking and other areas,where Asians lived-there was "**** Bashing".Guildford never had a large Asian Community,we did not get involved in anything like that.We had a few Black Mates so nothing happened there either.

 

[browniecj]

roytonboy-The Media were responsible for a lot of the Bank Holiday Riots.If there was nothing happening,the Journalists used to pay some to start trouble.The "rubber-neckers" used to come in their hundreds just to see if anything kicked off.Then they would go away and say"bloody kids etc."But it made their day out.

 

[roytonboy]

browniecj - interesting stuff! I'm going to have to get to one of your disco nights sometime - you'll know me, I'll be the one who comes to ask you to play some soul (even though I know you are a reggae man!)

Unfortunately, having highlighted a positive legacy of 'skinhead', I must concede that a negative has been the continued association with racism spawned through the reporting of '****-bashing' and which lead, no doubt, to the second generation of skinheads being drawn to the National Front et al. Again with reference to chicken and egg, was that because racists had an identity to be associated with, or because neo-skinheads thought that they should be racist? If you mention to someone that you used to be a skinhead, sadly you can just tell what is going through their mind......

 

[cerneabbas]

I stand corrected! - There were no army barracks near us so it was never something that was ever mentioned. As always, the usual disclaimer about time and place/regional differences.

Interesting that you cite a particular incident as the spark for it in Guildford - my take on the term "sguaddie bashing" was that it was like "****-bashing" or "queer bashing" i.e. individuals were supposedly attacked simply for that particular identity, not some ongoing feud or 'bad blood'. I don't doubt that the latter two also did occur but probably on a much lesser scale than the press would have had us believe at the time. No doubt some of those occasions were as a direct result of people reading in the paper that "that was what skinheads do."

As an aside - I have read an account of the first Mods and Rockers trouble (Clacton) which stated that the town had a lot of young people, some who came on motorbikes, some on scooters who, bored because of the bad weather, caused trouble around the resort over a Bank Holiday week-end. However this was reported as trouble between those who came on motorbikes and those who arrived on scooters - Result? By the following Bank Holiday hundreds arrived looking for trouble between the two groups, so inevitably it happened.

roytonboy...I lived in Dover for a few months in 74 / 75,there were 2 barracks there then ( both closed now ),so lots of soldiers and lots of trouble between different regiments and between soldiers and "civvies".
I put it down to lots of young blokes being in one area so there arent enough girls to go around ( could be the way I think though ).
By 74 the local lads werent skinheads of course,but they would have to be mob handed when they were out as the soldiers tended to go out in groups.
I think that there has probably always been problems in or near garrison towns but "squaddie bashing by skinheads" was probably a better sounding story than "local youths scuffle with soldiers ".

 

[cerneabbas]

roytonboy-The Media were responsible for a lot of the Bank Holiday Riots.If there was nothing happening,the Journalists used to pay some to start trouble.The "rubber-neckers" used to come in their hundreds just to see if anything kicked off.Then they would go away and say"bloody kids etc."But it made their day out.

browniecj..Perhaps thats the legacy of the skinhead times,distrust for the media ( and for those who had dealings with them the Police ) .

 

[Lerk]

Got the sheepskin today. Wont be needing any special cleaning since it's in good shape. It's one of those brownish/darker types. Matches the rest of my warderobe better.

40£ including post/freight isn't too bad.

 

[Bob the Badger]

.Perhaps thats the legacy of the skinhead times,distrust for the media ( and for those who had dealings with them the Police ) .

To this day I distrust the police. Back then, on a couple of occasions, I was nearly 'fitted up' for things I hadn't done.The police were generally drawn from the same working class people that I was a part of but we were taught from a young age not to trust them. I am surprised that even cousins in their 60/70s still have a strong dislike for the old bill even though we now all lead respectable middle class lives.One of our mates became a policeman and even won a bravery award. Eventually he got too close to villains, crossed a boundary, and ended up inside.
The media are generally lazy and don't research their subjects deeply enough before writing on them. They completely distorted what was going on with British youth back in 68-72. When they write on a subject that one is familiar with it soon becomes apparent that they don't know anything. I find it interesting that when BBC4 shows archive material on the social life of the 1960/1970s we get the same old 'summer of love' everybody was a hippy type rubbish with shots of Carnaby Street etc. The whole skinhead thing has been ignored or suppressed so that young people today ask me what it was like to be a hippy. When I have said I had a 1/2inch crop and listened to reggae they jump to the conclusion I was a right wing fascist when I was probably the polar opposite.
My school photo from summer 1969 shows 95% of boys at my school with very short hair. 'Summer of Love' , what a joke.

 

[Bob the Badger]

I don't know if there are any phrases or slang that skinheads used that are still used today. Or if the phrases were nationwide back then.
We always used the one word expression 'alright?' when greeting a mate, followed 'by how's it going' and only this morning the paper boy said that to me.
For a brief time girls were called 'sorts' and if they were good looking 'tasty sorts'. A 'geezer' good with his fists was described as 'tasty' as well. If it was said that someone was a 'bit tasty' you were on your guard in his company.
A goer was a girl that er 'went all the way' fairly rare but if found was often called 'a slag' if you didn't 'get your leg over' and she didn't 'come across'
'Aggro' was one term that I think skinheads can lay claim to and it is still understood and used today.
'Old Bill (and Jill)' was commonly used back then and still today.
We also used a lot of rhyming slang but that was handed down to us.
'Leave it out ' was another expression I remember (sometimes followed by 'he ain't worth it'). A mate could be called a 'cnut' in a friendly way or even 'you tart' as a form of affection.
I think the book The Paint House' captured a flavour of the language but my copy is in the loft and I seem to remember i didn't 'rate it' when I read it first time round.

 

[roytonboy]

roytonboy...I lived in Dover for a few months in 74 / 75,there were 2 barracks there then ( both closed now ),so lots of soldiers and lots of trouble between different regiments and between soldiers and "civvies".
I put it down to lots of young blokes being in one area so there arent enough girls to go around ( could be the way I think though ).
By 74 the local lads werent skinheads of course,but they would have to be mob handed when they were out as the soldiers tended to go out in groups.
I think that there has probably always been problems in or near garrison towns but "squaddie bashing by skinheads" was probably a better sounding story than "local youths scuffle with soldiers ".

That's an interesting observation, cerneabbas and spot on, I would imagine. I once had a workmate who was a really nice lad - good sense of humour, popular with everybody, especially the young ladies. Out of the blue he decided to join the Territorial Army and within a matter of weeks had changed into an aggressive 'barrack room lawyer'. Suddenly he was all for himself, didn't trust anybody and would question everything. When we went out for a drink he would be quite literally snarling at people, standing in their way, making them walk round etc. as if challenging them to fight. He told us that the NCOs had instructed them "not to take stick off anybody" . This was a guy in his early twenties. Whilst I'm sure not everybody in the army responds in this way, you can see how some young lads going through the sort of training they do must suddenly start to 'fancy their chances' and I'm sure this has been true through the ages. You know how standing by your mates in a tight spot has a great bonding effect and a group of young soldiers is going to be no different.

It's funny how things that get a label tend to stick...... ..

Bovver Boys
**** Bashing
Witty, sporting Scousers

............our press has a lot answer for...........

 

[Clouseau]

Quote: I just can speak from a "second wave" point of view, and not coming from England. But i think (from my experience, not the same of other guys on this thread, and i don't think i 've got the ultimate truth) that first "2nd wave" skinheads were not racist. Some were former punks, others like me were "two tone" fans, who tried to have a good look and wanted to have fun. It has been mentioned that the 2tone bands were influenced by the originals and were not racist. Specials, Bad manners, Selecter, The beat, Bodysnatchers, etc had all black musicians in their bands. Most of the skins i knew in the beginning of the eighties listened to ska, reggae, and bands that were more or less mainstream at the time (coming from punk or new wave, like Clash, Stranglers, Joy Division, etc.). And we were not racist. definitely not. Imho, things changed with the arrival of "Oi", that came a bit later in France than in England. With the media, skinheads soon became "known" as facists and racists, and it's the main reason why mid-eighties i moved on.

Great stuff on slang by Bob. More material for the book...