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milk: does a body terrible?

Discussion in 'Health & Body' started by js4design, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. MrG

    MrG Well-Known Member

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    ...

    ...

    Do either of you have sources for your assertions? I'm not asking to be patronizing or sarcastic; I'm genuinely curious. You're making claims that are pretty much directly conflicting, and I can't help but wonder if either of you have hard data.
     
  2. javyn

    javyn Well-Known Member

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    Or perhaps a lack of magnesium inhibiting the absorption of all that calcium.
     
  3. bBoy JEe

    bBoy JEe Well-Known Member

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    Or perhaps a lack of magnesium inhibiting the absorption of all that calcium.

    Caffeine also inhibits the absorption of calcium. In fact, most studies will show that our calcium intake in NA is way above what it "needs" to be, but most of it is leeched out.
     
  4. runner-guy

    runner-guy Well-Known Member

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  5. KnowYourRights

    KnowYourRights Well-Known Member

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    What the woman in the OP states makes logical sense to me. After all, we seem to be the only animals that consume milk from other species.

    I lack the scientific background (and the Google patience) to comment on the adverse effects of dairy consumption. But it would seem that a calf's nutritional needs--including the requisite proteins--to triple (or so) its birth weight in a matter of months is met by its mother's dairy production. Compare those needs to a human infant's and its mother's production (and nutritional content) of breast milk.

    In either case, both calf and human are weened from mothers' milk in a relatively short time. And the mothers cease milk production. That would lead me to believe that in the natural order of things, milk is unnecessary after infancy. So why continue to consume it (breast milk or cow's milk)?
     
  6. Gradstudent78

    Gradstudent78 Well-Known Member

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    What the woman in the OP states makes logical sense to me. After all, we seem to be the only animals that consume milk from other species.


    [​IMG]

    This arguement is cringe worthy and has already been addressed in this thread. Humans do a lot of things other animals don't and that fact alone doesn't make it bad for us.
     
  7. cptjeff

    cptjeff Well-Known Member

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    What the woman in the OP states makes logical sense to me. After all, we seem to be the only animals that consume milk from other species.


    My cat would disagree. The only reason for that is because we have the means to do it. Pour her a saucer of milk and it's immediately lapped up. Scoop yourself a bowl of ice cream and she climbs all over you trying to eat some of it. That part is not something we've ever encouraged, but she wants her dairy. She also has a bad habit of removing cream and custard from donuts left out overnight.

    Milk is milk, there are few differences between cow's milk and human milk. The only real significant ones are the percentage of milkfat, which we modify anyway.

    The women's argument only makes sense if you don't have any real background. If there's any real issue, it would be what we feed milk cows- corn based diets have been shown to cause a whole lot of issues in beef consumption, causing virtually all of the health problems we associate with "red meat". Grass fed beef doesn't cause those problems.

    Milk is a great nutrient rich source of protein and vitamins, but there's plenty of fat too. Stick to 1% if you're not looking to gain weight. And if you're concerned about health problems, stick to organic.


    All that said, it's kind of hilarious that you're believing the word of a women hawking the heath benefits of juice. That's all of the nutritional value of soda without the carbonation, and somehow it's considered healthy. It's not.
     
  8. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Well-Known Member

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    i guess milk hides would be camel toes... damn one strike against milk.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. KnowYourRights

    KnowYourRights Well-Known Member

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    My cat would disagree. The only reason for that is because we have the means to do it. Pour her a saucer of milk and it's immediately lapped up. Scoop yourself a bowl of ice cream and she climbs all over you trying to eat some of it. That part is not something we've ever encouraged, but she wants her dairy. She also has a bad habit of removing cream and custard from donuts left out overnight.

    Milk is milk, there are few differences between cow's milk and human milk. The only real significant ones are the percentage of milkfat, which we modify anyway.


    I don't think you're addressing the point here. It seems your argument is one of accessibility. And of domesticated animals in a controlled environment. You could argue your cat's ability as a scavenger.

    But I can't seem to remember any episodes on animal planet where a pack lions were documented drinking wildebeast milk. If I'm wrong, please provide the link.

    If milk is milk, I'm interested to see a nutritional breakdown of cow milk versus human milk.
     
  10. KnowYourRights

    KnowYourRights Well-Known Member

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    Humans do a lot of things other animals don't and that fact alone doesn't make it bad for us.

    It doesn't make it bad for us, nor was it meant for us. I don't see the disconnect?
     
  11. closetmess

    closetmess Well-Known Member

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    My cat would disagree. The only reason for that is because we have the means to do it. Pour her a saucer of milk and it's immediately lapped up. Scoop yourself a bowl of ice cream and she climbs all over you trying to eat some of it. That part is not something we've ever encouraged, but she wants her dairy. She also has a bad habit of removing cream and custard from donuts left out overnight.

    Milk is milk, there are few differences between cow's milk and human milk. The only real significant ones are the percentage of milkfat, which we modify anyway.


    Your cat lacks cognitive reasoning. Of course it is going to like sugar and fat in a bowl put in front of it.

    Unless your cat is a kitten, as in still in its lactase producing stages (usually +/- 3 months), milk is quite bad for cats, especially their digestive tracts. They are, in humanspeakz, lactose intolerant.
     
  12. Gradstudent78

    Gradstudent78 Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't make it bad for us, nor was it meant for us. I don't see the disconnect?

    What food was meant for us besides human breast milk? Humans can survive very well without any one particular food in their diets. That doesn't address anything concerning the positives or negatives of one particular food or it's role as part of a larger diet.

    The disconnect is that it is irrelevant to the discussion.
     
  13. KnowYourRights

    KnowYourRights Well-Known Member

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    ^ Ah, so I went back and read what you had stated earlier in the thread. Got it. Because we have, we should. We are omnivores. But no mention of the structure of our teeth, intestinal tract, etc. and how they relate to human diet over its evolution.

    I, too, am cringing.
     
  14. cptjeff

    cptjeff Well-Known Member

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    Your cat lacks cognitive reasoning. Of course it is going to like sugar and fat in a bowl put in front of it. Unless your cat is a kitten, as in still in its lactase producing stages (usually +/- 3 months), milk is quite bad for cats, especially their digestive tracts. They are, in humanspeakz, lactose intolerant.
    Not all of them. Cats, like humans, retain their tolerance for lactose if constantly exposed to it. If they do not have milk for a period of time after they have been weaned, they lose their tolerance. Humans are exactly the same, but in our modern society we just keep feeding it to our kids, the bacteria in our gut that help metabolize it survive, and we keep drinking it and being able to get nutritional benefit. And cats do have cognition. Perhaps not as much as us, but science keeps suggesting that we're not as vastly superior to other species as we might think. Certainly cats have distinct personalties, which is considered to be a strong sign of cognition. For example, we used to think that dogs were brainless, and learned by Pavlovian response primarily. Well, modern research has shown that to be not quite true. They can learn a vocabulary of about 100 English words, show complex learning abilities, and complex emotions like jealousy. Of course, any pet owner could have told you that, but science has to do it formally.
    That's exactly my point. The reason that humans take advantage of milk for length of time we do is access. If other species have access, they can retain their tolerance for lactose just like humans. The only difference between humans and other mammals is the access to resources that opposable thumbs, bipedal motion, and large brains have created. And there have been tons of examples of animals drinking milk of other animals- there's probably about a story a month of some cute animal raising the orphaned offspring of another species. Recently I can recall a pig feeding puppies, a cat feeding rabbits, Dog feeding kittens... It happens on a fairly routine basis. You find those stories in the 'sappy' category of your local news station's website. Oh, and for the milk breakdown: http://classes.ansci.illinois.edu/an...omp_table.html Looks like cow milk has more protein and less lactose then human milk. Oh, you also wanted a link: Here's a cute one, Dog raising pig: http://dogblog.dogster.com/2008/02/2...adopts-piglet/
     
  15. KnowYourRights

    KnowYourRights Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly my point. The reason that humans take advantage of milk for length of time we do is access. If other species have access, they can retain their tolerance for lactose just like humans. The only difference between humans and other mammals is the access to resources that opposable thumbs, bipedal motion, and large brains have created.


    Again, you're missing my point. The arguments "we have, so we should" and "we can, so it's good" don't fly. At least throw me a biological bone here.

    I can run my truck on low-grade diesel. It will run. It will fulfill its duty as transportation from A to B. But just because I can, does it mean I should? Or that it's good for my truck? The short-term problems become instantly apparent in poor performance. Long-term issues include intake problems, engine wear, and potentially engine failure. Now the human body is much a more elegant "machine" than an internal combustion motor, but putting stuff into it that isn't the "fuel" it was meant to burn, well, the short- and long-term issues are destined to surface.


    And there have been tons of examples of animals drinking milk of other animals- there's probably about a story a month of some cute animal raising the orphaned offspring of another species. Recently I can recall a pig feeding puppies, a cat feeding rabbits, Dog feeding kittens... It happens on a fairly routine basis. You find those stories in the 'sappy' category of your local news station's website.

    Again, show me in a natural habitat where a fully weaned animal seeks out another species' milk. Emergency situations in vet clinics and zoos hardly represents "natural habitat."

    Looks like cow milk has more protein and less lactose then human milk.


    That's unfortunate as high levels of protein increase the acidity of the human bloodstream. To bring the ph balance back to normal, calcium is typically leeched from bone material. So looks like human milk is better for humans.
     
  16. HgaleK

    HgaleK Well-Known Member

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    I missed most of this, but milk does instant easy mac wonderful. So damn good.
     
  17. westinghouse

    westinghouse Well-Known Member

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    I add milk to cream of wheat and it rocks. I don't drink milk by itself but I use it as an ingredient in meals.
     
  18. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Well-Known Member

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    milk is supposedly good for the skin:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. db_ggmm

    db_ggmm Well-Known Member

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    That's unfortunate as high levels of protein increase the acidity of the human bloodstream. To bring the ph balance back to normal, calcium is typically leeched from bone material. So looks like human milk is better for humans.

    stop it
     
  20. Tck13

    Tck13 Well-Known Member

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    As a Registered Dietitian, let me shed some light on this subject. First, there is no link between increased calcium intake and increased rates of fractures. Actually, the opposite is true. Milk is one of the best dietary sources of vitamin D, which enhances calcium absorption in the gut and helps maintain calcium balance in the body. It is suggested that Vitamin D may decrease risks of prostate, breast, and colon cancer. Drinking milk will likely decrease the risk of certain types of cancers, not increase the risk. One of the reasons people living in northern latitudes have increased risks of certain cancers is thought to be due to the lack of adequate year-round sunlight, which is the main source of vitamin D. Recent studies have also shown that vitamin D may decrease the risk of heart disease. Finally, milk does not cause lactose intolerance. Lactose intolerance is due to a lack of the enzyme lactase. Lactose intolerance is thought to be related to either genetics or some type of injury to the small intestine.
    Link to Harvard School of Public Health I'm seeing different information from the book and studies. Also, I didn't say / Willett doesn't say that there was/is a direct link but there seems to be a link. To quote Willett, "Hip fractures tend to be more common in countries with high average calcium intake, such as the U.S. and New Zeland, than in those with low calcium intake, such as Singapore and Yugoslavia." Page 163, figure 19
    Do either of you have sources for your assertions? I'm not asking to be patronizing or sarcastic; I'm genuinely curious. You're making claims that are pretty much directly conflicting, and I can't help but wonder if either of you have hard data.
    References:
     

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