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Military Boot Camp for Civilians?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by tiecollector, Apr 1, 2008.

  1. Nonk

    Nonk Senior member

    Messages:
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    Globetrotter,

    We have no 'conscripts' here, we are an all volunteer Armed Forces, but taking your point to mean new recruits, no we recruit from seasoned troops, not directly from civilian life. (Hence the age profile of our Special Forces tends to be older than in the US for example)

    Applicants for Special Forces selection (well, SAS and SBS anyway, but I presume the new SRR is the same) have to have served a few years first; 3 I think.

    There are exceptions of course (this is the UK, nothing is that simple!). Members of the Special Forces Reserves, which in the case of the Army are mainly 21(Artist's Rifles) SAS and 23 SAS can apply to go on Regular Special Forces selection, despite notionally at least being 'civilians' and part-timers (the boundaries are very blurred, most Territorial Army Special Forces soldiers will devote an enormous amount of time to it) (Bear Grylls fans will know he was a member of 21 SAS, as was Sir Ranulph Fiennes)

    This means that if they pass, they have to be allocated a 'parent unit'. All our Special Forces retain a parent unit to which they return if they are no longer required. Soldiers generally serve in Special Forces until they retire or are kicked out, unless they desire other specialist employment such as pilot (we recruit most Army pilots from within the Army and most are NCO's not Officers) whereas Officers tend to do a tour or two, return to the wider Army and then return later to command a Squadron etc). Incidentally, the parent unit will be named as the soldiers unit if he is killed in combat, not the Special Forces unit, although it is in many cases obvious.

    Because of this we have soldiers with parent units in which they have never actually served. The Parachute Regiment seems to be a common one, as they are closest in ethos to the SAS and already provide around 60% of members.

    As far as I know, members of the Commonwealth SAS Regiments are able to go straight on our selection without serving in the British Army first (Australia and New Zealand)

    I know that New Zealand has had direct entry to its SAS from civilian life at one time or another, but to my knowledge, we have never had such a scheme.

    Just to confuse matters further, we now have Tri-Service selection,(Yes, even the RAF are allowed to try out!) meaning that it is the same for Navy and Army Special Forces, and candidates can elect to serve in either. There are as far as I know now some Army guys serving in the SBS, but these tend to be existing Army Commandos who have already had extensive experience in our Commando Brigade, which is a Royal Marines and therefore Royal Navy formation.

    I am not an expert, nor have I ever tried out for, or served in Special Forces, and I am long out of the Army, but this is the situation as far as I can remember and from the quite a few SAS guys I have met over the years and the ones I still know.
     
  2. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    Globetrotter,

    We have no 'conscripts' here, we are an all volunteer Armed Forces, but taking your point to mean new recruits, no we recruit from seasoned troops, not directly from civilian life. (Hence the age profile of our Special Forces tends to be older than in the US for example)

    Applicants for Special Forces selection (well, SAS and SBS anyway, but I presume the new SRR is the same) have to have served a few years first; 3 I think.

    There are exceptions of course (this is the UK, nothing is that simple!). Members of the Special Forces Reserves, which in the case of the Army are mainly 21(Artist's Rifles) SAS and 23 SAS can apply to go on Regular Special Forces selection, despite notionally at least being 'civilians' and part-timers (the boundaries are very blurred, most Territorial Army Special Forces soldiers will devote an enormous amount of time to it) (Bear Grylls fans will know he was a member of 21 SAS, as was Sir Ranulph Fiennes)

    This means that if they pass, they have to be allocated a 'parent unit'. All our Special Forces retain a parent unit to which they return if they are no longer required. Soldiers generally serve in Special Forces until they retire or are kicked out, unless they desire other specialist employment such as pilot (we recruit most Army pilots from within the Army and most are NCO's not Officers) whereas Officers tend to do a tour or two, return to the wider Army and then return later to command a Squadron etc). Incidentally, the parent unit will be named as the soldiers unit if he is killed in combat, not the Special Forces unit, although it is in many cases obvious.

    Because of this we have soldiers with parent units in which they have never actually served. The Parachute Regiment seems to be a common one, as they are closest in ethos to the SAS and already provide around 60% of members.

    As far as I know, members of the Commonwealth SAS Regiments are able to go straight on our selection without serving in the British Army first (Australia and New Zealand)

    I know that New Zealand has had direct entry to its SAS from civilian life at one time or another, but to my knowledge, we have never had such a scheme.

    Just to confuse matters further, we now have Tri-Service selection,(Yes, even the RAF are allowed to try out!) meaning that it is the same for Navy and Army Special Forces, and candidates can elect to serve in either. There are as far as I know now some Army guys serving in the SBS, but these tend to be existing Army Commandos who have already had extensive experience in our Commando Brigade, which is a Royal Marines and therefore Royal Navy formation.

    I am not an expert, nor have I ever tried out for, or served in Special Forces, and I am long out of the Army, but this is the situation as far as I can remember and from the quite a few SAS guys I have met over the years and the ones I still know.



    interesting -

    in the IDF we essentially have no profetional riflemen, career soldiers are comanders (either NCO's or officers) with very few exeptions - the main one being the naval camandos, their long training requires them to sign for 5 years. other than that, if you want to be a career grunt, you have to transfer to a special unit of the police.

    the special forces feed from new recuits (yes, that is the term I was looking for). there are companies assosiated with the airforce, the general staff, navy (the naval comandos) and then there are companies assosiated with each of the infantry brigades. you inlist in the infantry brigades - in some cases this requires candicy "tests" - I am not really sure how to discribe them but basically a serious of very difficult tasks that most people drop out of. and when enough people have dropped out they stop and if you are still left you are in.

    then, after you are in the infantry unit, you do another set of tests to be in the special companies of the infantry unit. that can go on for 5 days until enough people have dropped out.

    but, effectivly, that means that almost all of the members start training at 18.
     
  3. Nonk

    Nonk Senior member

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    Completely different from our system, although, we too have endless complications to the so-called system.

    There are specialist units which, while not strictly 'Special Forces', are formed from regular soldiers who undertake in-house selection. The Pathfinder Platoon of 16 Air-Moblie Brigade and the the Brigade Recce troop of 3 Commando Brigade etc etc are various examples.

    These are seen as a good grounding for full-up Special Forces selection.

    Also, while we don't have conscripts, I think I am right in saying that the average soldier only servres his minimum commitment, 3 years or so, so the majority of our Private soldiers are relatively (in terms of time served) inexperienced.

    Their time in combat however, given that we are fighting on two fronts is rather different.

    Interesting that Prince Harry recently served in Helmand. I do remember being told here that the Armed Forces consisted of trailer trash who should be confined to some sort of reservation!

    Not ours anyway!
     
  4. Connemara

    Connemara Senior member

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    Nonk, you live in Ireland, not the U.K. [​IMG]
     
  5. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Nonk, you live in Ireland, not the U.K. [​IMG]

    Nonk, do you think boot camp would be a good idea for young Connor McCloud?
     
  6. Nonk

    Nonk Senior member

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    Conne, even your screwed up view of the UK would be hard pressed to place Leicester in Ireland.
     
  7. Connemara

    Connemara Senior member

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    Conne, even you screwed up view of the UK would be hard pressed to place Leicester in Ireland.
    [​IMG] Touche!
     
  8. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  9. Nonk

    Nonk Senior member

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    Nonk, do you think boot camp would be a good idea for young Connor McCloud?


    The Parachute Regiment or the Household Division would do him the world of good!

    If he went to the Household Division, he could join my father's old Regiment, The Irish Guards.

    That would be interesting, to see what they made of him and his ideas!
     
  10. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    That would be interesting, to see what they made of him and his ideas!

    somehow, I think blankets, socks and bars of soap would be involved.
     
  11. MarkEDenman

    MarkEDenman New Member

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    Nov 25, 2008
    I am coming across this post a little late, didn't read all 4 pages of the conversation.

    Black Water offers some courses for civilians, a little more than what you will get from a concealed handgun course. shoot and move tactics that kind of thing. I am in Austin Tx and there is a gun range here offering alot of classes that are more military tactics.

    and if you look around there are classes offered that people will call "bootcamp" they are a fitness camps basicly, will cost you money and are going to be very limited because i am sure they dont want the liability.

    I really dont think there is a way to replicate exactly boot camp, seal, ranger or any of that. I would think the closest thing would be take some shooting courses, get a real hard ass trainer, join a boxing gym, get a buddy that will get up and go swimming in freezing cold rivers at 5 am with you, that kind of thing.
     
  12. jase12

    jase12 Senior member

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    Sep 25, 2008
    from the seals website

    REQUIREMENTS

    Physical/Mental:

    1. Pass a diving physical exam

    2. Eye sight cannot be worse than 20/40 in one eye and 20/70 in the other eye and must be correctable to 20/20 with no color blindness

    3. Minimum ASVAB score: VE+AR=104, MC=50

    4. Must be 28 years old or less

    5. Only men are eligible. (Demi Moore need not apply)


    haha
     
  13. Milhouse

    Milhouse Senior member

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    I like the meditation idea quite a bit.

    If you want another rite of passage, may I suggest a highly ranked MBA program? If you have a properly calibrated BS detector AT ALL, you will experience 2 years of the most profound psychological torture known to man.

    I recently heard that the CIA stopped using waterboarding and started showing prisoners endless powerpoint slides of neatly designed 2 by 2 matrices with cute titles about cows, and such. Often these powerpoints never say anything useful, and more likely are full of contradicting information, with a bunch of nonsense numbers about the future liberally sprinkled on top for good measure.

    I still have nightmares after that ordeal.
     
  14. Ken Marguet

    Ken Marguet New Member

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    It may be physically tough but basic training is so much more than that. It's where they break you down and build you back up better than you were to start with, they take the me out of you and put the team into you. By the time you finish you feel like brothers to the guys you were in with. Another difference in real basic training and a civilian version is you can't just quit the military version without carrying that badge of shame with you everywhere you go the rest of your life. It's not as simple as can I do X number of push-ups or sit-ups, it's can we as a team make it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Sweet Julie

    Sweet Julie New Member

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    I just googled boot camp for civilians because I have a lot of friends who are green beret's and was wondering if ther was a market for this sort of thing. Before my friend was a GB he was a drill Sargeant. Those guys are still wanting to work after they retire around age 40. I am going to talk to my friends and see if this appeals to them. It even help our govt. People who fail miserably will never was govt time and resources to achieve a pipe dream. With good lawyers to help citzens understand the danger, you could make it work. Sure you can have basic boot camp because it's easy to find guys who are retired drill sergeants, but I think there are many men that would love to have a real special forces experience, but know it is out of reach. I would make regular boot camp a prerequisite. Special forces training is very difficult. AFTER they pass training they still have to be tortured and tested to see how they would react as a pow. I would not feel comfortable with that, however, if people wanted that, I would talk to a lawyer. I'd only allow people in the he program who are already physically fit and have the applicants get their doctor to sign off on their health. If I can find a GB to be my business partner, I will let you know.
     
  16. Patriot70

    Patriot70 New Member

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    I've read through quite a few responses to this thread, but wanted to ask the same question. I want millitary training. I cannot enlist. I'm too old. I took the test for the Army when I was 17 and passed, but I had to graduate... that didn't happen. I made a lot of bad choices. When 9/11 happened, I tried to enlist again, and took the test, but this time I was getting divorced from my drug addict spouse, and was a single parent. I had no support from family and friends. Surprisingly, a couple years after the divorce, my ex finally dropped a clean urine and enlisted in the Army, and served a tour over in Iraq. The Army staightened my ex right out.

    These are the reasons that I want millitary training:

    First and foremost for dicipline. I am not diciplined enough. Joining a gym isn't going to do squat because I can go home and never come back. I need to be put in a situation where the only way out is FORWARD.

    I LOVE my country!!!! I LOVE my troops!!!! If something goes down on our soil, I want to be a help and not a hinderance!

    I want to see what I am really made of. I want to go to the limit and beyond.

    I want to understand what it really means to be a soldier. I would never claim to be equal with one, unless I was shoulder to shoulder with them in battle.

    I don't know if these reasons are good enough, or if I'm living in some fantasy land. I don't play video games or have some goofy ideas about the millitary. Fighting is ugly and costly...when I say costly, I don't give a shit about money....No one can put a price on the life of a fallen soldier. There isn't one friend or family member that wouldn't give everything they had to have their soldier back. I don't want to see the horror of war, but it is looking like that's where this country is headed. I don't want to hide under my bed as a coward. If the call to fight arises, I want to know what the hell I'm doing. Thank you.
     
  17. JayH1990

    JayH1990 New Member

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    I definitely understand what he would get out of it. That kind of training is designed to teach a person self-discipline, loyalty, how to be organised and work in a team. I assume you would learn where your real borders are and that our human body can do a lot more than we think. When we think "I cant", we need to just suck it up and do it anyways. We would all benefit from learning how to not be a quitter and have more of a "just do it" attitude. Oftentimes all that is really really uncomfortable is going to be beneficial for us in the end if you think about it. I never joined the army (I'm German and was going to join the German army), I did all the tests and then failed the frickin health test because I weighed 7 kg too little, bullshit if you ask me, but they got their regulations. Got two months to put on those 7 kg, me being a 165 cm tall female weighing 48 kg that just was a bit much. But my point is I really enjoyed just going through the PT tests even. I know it's nothing in comparison to basic training, which would have been much less "enjoyable" :p But I do believe that people can get alot out of a bit of a change of attitude. Look at us, we're beginning to get a lot more whiny than people used to me years ago. We make up excuses to be weak, lazy, fat, unloyal, unorganised...in a way that would not have been acceptet in my great grandads time
     
  18. MasonAlex33

    MasonAlex33 New Member

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    Did you ever find a place for the training?
     
  19. Hombre Secreto

    Hombre Secreto Senior member

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    Not sure if the Army still has this program... but at one point you could jump right into SF selection. You could become a green beret without having to go through Army boot camp. The 18x program.

    I've heard that X-Rays have a HORRIBLE success rate though. I think it's like 90% failure rate. Regret not trying out.
     
  20. Rajiyce

    Rajiyce New Member

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    I have also been interested in military style training for civilians. I'm a civilian but enjoy working out and have always respected the military. Plus, I never enlisted and always regretted that. Anyway, since I've done some research on this and have some experiences here is what I've found.
    It's important to know what you want to get out of the training. Are you doing military training for fitness..? Or, do you want more of a management bootcamp? Would you like a leadership development workshop with military style training? Or, more mental toughness. Consider that and then consider these options depending on your goals.

    Civilian Military training Fitness options:

    Boot camp training
    www.gutcheckfitness.com

    Seal Fitness
    I've read in Men's Journal about this former seal who gives you the workout of your life. Plus, you develop your mental toughness too.
    www.sealfit.com


    You may also want to test your mettle at an Obstacle course race
    www.spartan.com


    For Military Style Leadership Development:

    Leading Concepts has civilian military leadership training.
    www.leadingconcepts.com

    I've graduated from Leading Concepts Ranger training and it's an amazing experience.
    They stress leadership, teamwork and communication and you get to command a 'platoon' like an army ranger.

    For military style teamwork training
    http://www.leadingconcepts.com/ranger-teams-course/

    If you want to train in the martial arts - try Krav Maga. It's Israeli military self defense.
    See also http://www.commandokravmaga.com/
     

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