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Microsoft Surface

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Douglas, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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    To each his own I guess, I find the ribbon intuitive. Granted, the headings options take up way too much room on the ribbon, but auto-previewing fonts is pretty neat. Ever try to pass around a redline draft from Open, btw?

    As far as Metro goes for the OS and Phone UI....I want to like it...I really do...but can't shake the whole "wow this is incredibly stupid" feeling when I see it in action.

    First Ubuntu gets all cocked up with the new Gnome, then Win 8 with this Metro garbage. Now I'm reading that the next generation of Intel chips will be pin-less, WTF?! What are these morons doing to my beloved PC?! Does Intel really think I'm going to go for one of these overpriced janky "Ultrabooks" that actually cost more than Macbook Airs and do less? Plz.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  2. Harold falcon

    Harold falcon Senior member

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  3. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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  4. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    No, it won't lose any of the business user base over this because they don't buy software the way you do. When businesses buy volume licenses, they get downgrade rights, which means that when they buy new windows 8 volume licenses, they can use those same licenses to go ahead and install windows 7, which most are planning on doing anyway since we're nearing the end of XP support and no large enterprises will have time to prep a launch of windows 8 and they'll want to avoid the training costs. MS knows this and fully expects businesses to continue with Windows 7, which will be supported until 2019. Even if MS sticks to normal release schedules or releasing every 3 years (and there are some indications that they will start shipping smaller updates once a year), there will be two more major versions before most companies have to upgrade from windows 7. Windows 8 is mainly intended as a consumer release and as a product that will set them up for the future. It's not going to cost them any business on the enterprise side. And on the enterprise side, their software stack is now stronger than ever.

    JR, I said I went to desktop after the OS loaded and never really returned to metro, not that I booted into desktop. Still, it takes a single keypress or click of the mouse after it boots to go into the desktop mode and then you really don't have to leave it if you don't want to. The start screen is a start menu on steroids. In terms of keypresses and number of clicks, everything is the same or faster.

    Anyway... It's a major transitional product and they ARE forcing it down consumers' throats. They are doing this so that devs can be confident that within a year there will be 100+ million people using Metro so that they will actually develop for it. It's hardly perfect but all the bitching over the start screen is annoying because if you work from the desktop i'd be very surprised if most people need more than a few applications pinned to the taskbar. And for stuff that's not pinned? hit start and then type. It's exactly the same as in 7 except the "start menu" is full screen.
     
  5. rnoldh

    rnoldh Senior member

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    As I said, I've installed that Start8 program on my preinstalled Windows8 laptop and now I boot directly to the desktop ( which is a configuration feature of Start8 ). I also can of course go to the Metro UI ( which I seldom do ) with a single key click.

    Believe it or not, this really makes a differnce to a user like me. And I'm starting to like W8s increased speed and other definite advantages. It doesn't seem like this is a disaster like Vista was though I don't see W8 as a big success.

    I did read that there are already rumors of a "W8 & 1/2" consumer upgrade in the future, removing the Metro UI and leaving all the other desktop improvements plus adding a few more.

    I wonder what people would say if Apple had released a new version of OS X with iOS 6.0.1 grafted onto it, and installed it on non-touch IMacs and Macs. Then in theory Mac users could use their beloved OS X as well as having access to iOS 6.0.1 apps that they use on their phones and Ipads.
     
  6. Gibonius

    Gibonius Senior member

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    Unless you have a shitty IT department that pushes updates all the time (*cough*), most competent users are probably only rebooting once a month or less anyway. Shouldn't be a big deal.

    I haven't used Win8, but I'm still predominantly a desktop user and have little plans on changing that. I use my PC for writing, working up data, etc, and tablets/touchscreens suck donkey scrotum for that. A whole OS centered around that it not going to make the enterprise users happy, I would guess.


    Also add me to the list of people who think the updated Office interface sucks.
     
  7. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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    You'll love Office 2010 when the new ones will all be in the Cloud and micro-charge the shit out of LOL
     
  8. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    It seems Windows 8 isn't a huge failure after all. It's already sold 40 million copies. That's 40 million IN ONE MONTH. Yes, a big chunk of those are OEM and volume licensing and they have the $40 upgrade deal, but it is still outpacing windows 7 upgrades at the same point in its life. It's still only a month in but it seems to be doing just fine.

    Full article:
    http://arstechnica.com/information-...reat-at-40-million-copies-in-the-first-month/
     
  9. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    I suspect most people will really like office 2013 because it puts skydrive front and center and most have gotten over ribbon changes by now. Skydrive is now the default location to save documents to. Tech savvy people might have been aware of dropbox/skydrive and other such things, but for a lot of people that use office in some capacity, skydrive and what you can do with it will be a revelation for them.

    The licensing of Office is going to be an interesting experiment. Whereas before you'd pay $350 upfront for Home and Business (outlook, word, excel, PowerPoint, OneNote) or whatever and get rights to install on 2 machines belonging to the same user, there is now no option for that. It'll only be available to a single user per copy and there will be a simultaneous reduction in price (from $249 for the single install version of 2010 H&B to $219 for the 2013 version).

    However, you can now pay for an Office 365 Home Premium subscription, which includes Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote, Outlook, Publisher, Access, SkyDrive with an additional 20 GB of storage, and 60 minutes of free Skype calls each month, all for $99.99 a year. 365 Home Premium actually contains the same applications that Office Professional 2010 contains, but that costs $670 for 2 computers. The Office 365 HP sub on the other hand gives you a household license that is good for 5 computers. You can install locally or use the web apps. Or if you're not on your computer and need a full copy asap, you can stream the full applications and when you're done it will uninstall itself.

    Given that both my wife and I use Office and will likely have 5 computers between us at some point (desktop, 2 laptops, 2 tablets), that's a pretty sweet deal. I don't care that I don't own it when the deal is that attractive (I'm beyond the age of messing around with pirated copies).
     
  10. Harold falcon

    Harold falcon Senior member

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    Maybe I was wrong then. I'd be surprised if I am, but maybe I am.
     
  11. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Most users tend to be far from competent in my experience.
     
  12. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/29/3706866/surface-pro-january-price-availability

    Surface Pro will come in 2 versions:
    $899 for 64GB
    $999 for 128GB

    Both come with an active digitizer for pen input, 10.6" 1920x1080 screen (compared to 1366x768 on 11" air or 1440x900 on 13" MBA), 4GB RAM, core i5 CPU (maybe the ULV version of the chip), a 42W-h batter (11" air is 35W-h, 13" is 50W-h).

    It weights 1.99lbs compared to the Air's 2.38

    And now the downside... MS tweeted it'll have approx. half the battery life of the Surface RT.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  13. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    You don't think the price is also a downside? That's rather expensive for a "tablet" in this competitive market. Remember that's what MS is going to market this device as, so it's going to be cross shopped by consumers as such.

    EDIT: Plus it's way too heavy to be used comfortably as a tablet, so why even bother designing it to be used as one? Just make it a thin and light laptop with a touchscreen and market it as such.

    I'm just not sure I believe the Surface Pro going to make the type of inroads with consumers that MS desires. Too heavy and expensive for a tablet with shitty battery-life compared to the competition and not a strong enough product as a laptop.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  14. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Wow, I just realized they are not bundling a touch cover in with the Surface Pro's either. This adds $120 per device. So realistically this makes your initial investment closer to $1020 for the cheaper one, then $899. I don't get it. Who is the market for these "tablets"?

    To be clear, I do get the Surface RT. As a product it completely makes sense to me and is compelling. Well if you ignore the fact that it still has Desktop and asks you use Office apps with a shitty hacked on touch mode, that is. ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  15. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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    I was going to say "rich assholes", but I think Apple's lock on that target is in no danger.

    (edit: Not me though, I'm a cool down to earth type Apple device owning dude)
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
    2 people like this.
  16. Jr Mouse

    Jr Mouse Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Fuck, I wish I was in the rich asshole demographic.
     
  17. Dbear

    Dbear Senior member

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    So who has actually bought one of these and how is it.
     
  18. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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    Me too. The asshole part came easy, still trying to figure out where I went wrong with getting rich...probably being retarded has something to do with it.
     
  19. Rambo

    Rambo Senior member

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    I suspect this will be a hit with corporate america.
     
  20. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    I honestly don't know how well this will do with consumers. I could honestly see myself using it as a laptop replacement and if it's good enough as a tablet I don't need a second device. Do I really want to purchase both an ultrabook AND a tablet? I suspect a lot of people see the appeal of tablets and will be willing to compromise a bit but who knows...The specs are very strong and had it been available when I was in school, it would have been an instant buy.

    Think about what that $1020-$1120 is buying you. Very few ultrabooks can match it on specs and no ultrabooks can match it on price for what you are getting. Not the MBA (the $999 version only has 64GB, is lower res, and has no inking capability) and not most ultrabooks on the PC side. And it's lighter than any of them. Yes, it's a bit thicker and heavier than a typical tablet but it's capable of so much more. Having said that, I love my X series thinkpad but the screen/resolution of it sucks and I've said for a while now that I won't buy another device that is lower than 1080p but the options are few and far between in the ultrabook category. Displays in that category generally suck. There's nothing to stop you from getting both touch and type covers. Yes, it's a little bit more money, but the type makes all the difference if you need to use it more as a laptop going on a business trip, for example, and the extra bulk/weight isn't as big a deal as it is on a daily commute.

    I guess the biggest question you have to ask yourself prior to purchasing one is how will you use it and that's a bit hard for such a new type of device. Will you use it 80% as laptop and 20% as tablet or vice-versa or some other combo? I've never intended to use a tablet as my regular e-reader. I use a kindle for that. Technical books? Yes, but I am at a desk when reading those as opposed to standing on the subway holding it with one hand, where frankly even the surface RT or iPad are too heavy. Most people reading iPads on the subway for any length of time are seated and have the ipad propped up against their legs. And apparently it actually does work pretty well in bed so that you don't have to hold it up all that time... What you do is fold the keyboard back and that provides a flat surface for the kickstand to rest on. Still, I'd like to try it in a couple different positions. And it's obviously great for note taking, meetings, etc.

    I'm holding off my decision until there's actual battery life tests though MS seems to be taking a conservative line on that question. I find it a bit strange that the MBA with a 1.2" large screen (and yes fewer pixels), consumes so much less battery than this tablet does. Both would have ivy bridge processors. Both have SSDs. Both have 4GB RAM. The Surface pro has a 7W-Hr advantage in battery capacity. Surely the digitizer for pen input doesn't account for that difference? I know that for haswell (intel's next gen chip coming out next year), intel is reading manufacturers of other components the riot act when it comes to how various other components on the motherboard behave in terms of power consumption. Has mac already done that? Maybe MS is making worst-case assumptions based on the poorly behaving legacy apps that will keep bring the CPU out of lower power states that most people will install on them? Windows 8 has actually made huge improvements to power management, so if it's only 4.5 hours to an MBA, i'll honestly be a little puzzled, because I don't see how there's that much difference on the OS level anymore.

    For businesses, the Surface Pro is a no brainer, and I say that as someone that makes purchasing decisions. The Surface Pro is exactly what we've been waiting for in the enterprise.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012

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