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Sinbios

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I would like to read which is the law that support your affirmations, related specifically for “final sales” of factory seconds, so I’ll appreciate it if you can share a link to it.
I think this is a more authoritative and clear source than the Italian site provided:


If you bought a product or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and without a justification.
Not much room for interpretation there. Meermin's "no returns" clause clearly violates this for online sales.

However they do list some exceptions:


The 14-day cooling off period does not apply to all purchases. Some of the exemptions are:

  • plane and train tickets, as well as concert tickets, hotel bookings, car rental reservations and catering services for specific dates
  • goods and drinks delivered to you by regular delivery – for example delivery by a milkman
  • goods made to order or clearly personalised – such as a tailor-made suit
  • sealed audio, video or computer software, such as DVDs, which you have unsealed upon receipt
  • online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance
  • goods bought from a private individual rather than a company/trader
  • urgent repairs and maintenance contracts – if you call a plumber to repair a leaking shower, you can't cancel the work once you have agreed on the price of the service
So no return on MTOs is fine, but no returns on seconds is not legal.
 

Sinbios

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Honestly this law makes sense. In a store you can inspect the product sold as seconds and decide if the defect is acceptable to you, with online sales it's not possible to do so unless the vendor posts detailed pictures. With the no returns clause the online buyer essentially has less rights than the in-store buyer.

When you think about it, it's pretty anti-consumer to sell a defective product blind with a no returns clause; it essentially turns into a gamble and allows the vendor sell any defective product without meeting any minimal threshold of quality or functionality. The EU is pretty big on consumer protection, I'm sure they wouldn't like that.
 
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Mercurio

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So no return on MTOs is fine, but no returns on seconds is not legal.
What would be the arguments for returning a pair of shoes?

- They are faulty? You already knew that.
- It doesn't fit? If you have doubts about your size, you should buy a new pair that you can return instead of gambling.
- I thought that the issues were not as apparent. Sorry, bad luck as some items do not have any apparent issues.
- I changed my mind. Well...

It would interesting to know what de @Meermin has to say about this as I feel we are speculating on the issue. If it is illegal, they should already know as this isn't their first factory sale and I doubt they are taking such a risk.
 

Patrick1053

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I think this is a more authoritative and clear source than the Italian site provided:




Not much room for interpretation there. Meermin's "no returns" clause clearly violates this for online sales.

However they do list some exceptions:




So no return on MTOs is fine, but no returns on seconds is not legal.
Well, actually Meermin personally made the shoes with a defect specifically for you, so that you could get them at a discounted price;)
 

Sinbios

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What would be the arguments for returning a pair of shoes?

- They are faulty? You already knew that.
- It doesn't fit? If you have doubts about your size, you should buy a new pair that you can return instead of gambling.
- I thought that the issues were not as apparent. Sorry, bad luck as some items do not have any apparent issues.
- I changed my mind. Well...

It would interesting to know what de @Meermin has to say about this as I feel we are speculating on the issue. If it is illegal, they should already know as this isn't their first factory sale and I doubt they are taking such a risk.
That's the point, you don't need an argument. You can return online sales for for any reason and without a justification.

But if you really want one, an argument could be made that it should not be allowed to sell defective goods without the buyer being able to inspect it first to assess whether the defect is acceptable to them.

Sorry, bad luck
Well, buying goods online is not supposed to be a gamble unless the product is explicitly sold as such, so...

Actually, under EU law I wonder if it would even be legal to sell those blind grab bags without allowing returns. The "sealed goods" exception only applies to digital software and media.
 

notdos

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As quickly as they sell out, I’d be surprised if they didn’t switch to the countries that allow their, more than reasonable, terms of sale.
 

Sinbios

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As quickly as they sell out, I’d be surprised if they didn’t switch to the countries that allow their, more than reasonable, terms of sale.
The law applies to vendors in the EU, it doesn't matter if the buyer is not under EU jurisdiction. To sell stuff in a jurisdiction you must follow its laws.

If you're not sure which situation applies to you, you can also try our consumer rights tool to help you understand your rights when you shop in the EU.
It's actually kind of odd that we think of anti-consumer terms of sale that allow the vendor to completely fuck over the consumer without recourse as reasonable.
 

notdos

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Here, we call it common sense. Want it cheap? Then you take your chances. I’m totally good with that. And since the EU law states that the items should match what was advertised or agreed, I find it impossible to reasonably argue.
 

iva80

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Here, we call it common sense. Want it cheap? Then you take your chances. I’m totally good with that. And since the EU law states that the items should match what was advertised or agreed, I find it impossible to reasonably argue.
You are missing the point. The right to return is non negotiable.

MTO orders quslify as custom work, but the product provided must be at the right quality standards or the makervhas to redobthe order or other correctivd messures thst are satisfactory for the customer
 

notdos

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No, I completely understand the law. I refuse to ignore the rights of the seller to set reasonable terms.
If you bitch enough, Wal Mart will allow you to return used undergarments. I don’t support that, either.
 

Taracta

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"Traders are required to expressly specify the existence of the right or its inapplicability to the specific case."

Could this line in the law be what Meermin is using?
 

Mirage-

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No one gives a damn if you're good with it. Law is law. It's incredible the length you people will go to defend anti-consumer practices even when clearly illegal, to the point of belittling people who not even use, no, just even *mention* the right.
 

notdos

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Oh poor consumer. The same consumer that examines a pair of fucking shoes 18” from their eyes when they clearly go on the feet. Only morons buy shoes marked seconds, then bitch about what they receive.
 

stephenaf2003

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Oh poor consumer. The same consumer that examines a pair of fucking shoes 18” from their eyes when they clearly go on the feet. Only morons buy shoes marked seconds, then bitch about what they receive.
Your mistake is attempting to reason with these geniuses, it’s more fun to mock the hard of thinking.

735AEC6D-EECE-4400-9CF5-26C1FCBCCA2F.gif
 

zurich64

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Oh poor consumer. The same consumer that examines a pair of fucking shoes 18” from their eyes when they clearly go on the feet. Only morons buy shoes marked seconds, then bitch about what they receive.
There is no such thing in the EU as a final sale when you bought something without looking at it (online, phone). most people will keep their shoes, but if someone does not like what they received, then they have the right to return it.
 

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