• STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

MC General Chat

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
24,911
Reaction score
62,520
Hmmm this is interesting.

Out of the makers I've used (NSM - who AFAIK uses various tailors - Salvo, Palmisciano, and Arrigo) I'd say Palmisciano has the most "spring" in their roll, and NSM has the least (it usually just opens up completely). Not sure if that has to do with the way the lapel is padded, or the canvassing used. Maybe a bit of both?

Curious to hear @Despos and @jefferyd weigh in.
I think Despos touched on this in the excerpt I quoted above. Also this from Jeffery's blog




An excerpt from the post:

"You will notice that the garment which has been stitched my machine does not roll as much as the garment at the top of the page, which was paddded by hand. This does not mean that it will not roll as well; the canvas will still provide a great deal of loft to the roll. It may not, however, hug the chest quite as tightly as a hand-padded lapel will. By varying the amount of canvas worked over the cloth and by stitching closer together or further apart I can vary the degree of roll in the lapel. This is a very fine point and I am not sure that it makes a very great difference in a finished, pressed garment. My unsubstantiated opinion is that it is better done by hand, but to really investigate further I would have to make two identical suits using identical trims and machine pad one of them, and do the other by hand. Maybe when I have retired and have nothing better to do."

The post is over 13 years old, however, so perhaps Jeffrey's views have changed.
 

UrbanComposition

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
6,381
Reaction score
19,074
Nice. Thanks for quoting those.

So does this mean that both the way in which the layers of canvassing are put together (one longer than the other), and the way in which they are padded (tightly v loosely) have a bearing on lapel roll?

Also, as @jefferyd posits, might all of this not make a significant difference once a garment is pressed?
 

Despos

Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
8,153
Reaction score
4,326
Lapel "roll or Bloom" is like making espresso. Explain later.

My explanation in the other post is how you layer the cloth and canvass and how it effects the roll. The pad stitching only holds your preparation and layering of the cloth and canvass in place. Pad stitching on it's own can create the roll regardless of the attention given to the layering but if you do the layering and then pad stitch it properly you increase the springy effect. Sometimes I see IG posts and the specific basting stitches used to hold the layers in place. Maybe I can repost a pic.

Common thought making espresso is after the portafilter is full of coffee, tamping is the next step to make a shot of espresso. Distribution before tamping is the key factor for an even extraction. You have to manually distribute the grounds or have an excellent grinder that fills the portafilter in a proper layering. When the coffee distribution is well done, tamping only secures the grounds and gets rid of air pockets. Tamping holds things in place to maintain the distribution you did. Pad stitching holds the layers together and secures the layering to maintain the roll. You need to tamp the coffee puck and you need to pad stitch but you cannot neglect the prep.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
24,911
Reaction score
62,520
Lapel "roll or Bloom" is like making espresso. Explain later.

My explanation in the other post is how you layer the cloth and canvass and how it effects the roll. The pad stitching only holds your preparation and layering of the cloth and canvass in place. Pad stitching on it's own can create the roll regardless of the attention given to the layering but if you do the layering and then pad stitch it properly you increase the springy effect. Sometimes I see IG posts and the specific basting stitches used to hold the layers in place. Maybe I can repost a pic.

Common thought making espresso is after the portafilter is full of coffee, tamping is the next step to make a shot of espresso. Distribution before tamping is the key factor for an even extraction. You have to manually distribute the grounds or have an excellent grinder that fills the portafilter in a proper layering. When the coffee distribution is well done, tamping only secures the grounds and gets rid of air pockets. Tamping holds things in place to maintain the distribution you did. Pad stitching holds the layers together and secures the layering to maintain the roll. You need to tamp the coffee puck and you need to pad stitch but you cannot neglect the prep.
Thanks! That makes sense.

I'm curious: when you look out across the world of bespoke tailoring and machine-made tailoring as the two exist today, do you feel that machine-padding closely imitates the average work coming out of bespoke tailoring shops? Or is hand-padding always better and easy to spot without touching the garment?
 

Despos

Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
8,153
Reaction score
4,326
Thanks! That makes sense.

I'm curious: when you look out across the world of bespoke tailoring and machine-made tailoring as the two exist today, do you feel that machine-padding closely imitates the average work coming out of bespoke tailoring shops? Or is hand-padding always better and easy to spot without touching the garment?
The tailors I know who do machine padding do it because of the volume of jackets they make. They would rather spend more time on other construction points of the making.
I don't know anything of how the machines work or the effectiveness of it. If you make only a few jacket a week, a machine isn't cost effective. If you make 40-50 jackets a week, it might be.
 

jefferyd

Distinguished Member
Affiliate Vendor
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
787
In my opinion, the following have an effect on the roll or bloom, in order of importance;

1. Type of canvas chosen
2. How well-balanced the canvas is to the cloth
3. The cloth
4. The density of the pad stitching
5. The amount of excess canvas worked into the roll

I’m not sure whether hand stitching has a measurably better result than a machine. I was once told that Angus Cundey was unaware that Henry Poole garments were being padded by machine until I opened one up and put it on the internet, at which point he insisted that every garment must be hand-padded. I agree that hand padding should be expected from a top Savile Row firm just out of principle, but if he was unaware of the machine padding one wonders just how detrimental it actually is to the garment.

Nice to hear from some of you old-timers!
Also, 13 years ago already? Holy shit. That’s depressing.
 

BB_Adept

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2020
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
This is an old sports coat made of wool and linen.
The fabric was stained and the dry cleaners could not get it out, so I decided to give it a wash because there was nothing to lose anymore. The fabric is not stained anymore, so that worked out. Sadly the fabric now shows these little dark areas that I cannot quite describe and i hope are visible. It's on the top left as shown in the picture but it is on another areas as well. When I look closely, it is as if the fabric is looser. Any1 got an idea how to fix this?
I just realized that it is very hard to figure out what exactly i mean. The cloth looks as if it has been thoroughly scratched. The marked area should show what i mean, its on the back as well. I am well aware of the fact that the jacket needs to be pressed, but i do not want to put in that much effort if the cloth is ruined.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

smittycl

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
10,364
Reaction score
15,079
Interesting collaboration between Brunell Cucinelli and Oliver People’s:


Nice classic designs, imo.
Seems like ~ $500 is the new normal for really nice sunglasses.
 

BB_Adept

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2020
Messages
63
Reaction score
16
This is an old sports coat made of wool and linen.
The fabric was stained and the dry cleaners could not get it out, so I decided to give it a wash because there was nothing to lose anymore. The fabric is not stained anymore, so that worked out. Sadly the fabric now shows these little dark areas that I cannot quite describe and i hope are visible. It's on the top left as shown in the picture but it is on another areas as well. When I look closely, it is as if the fabric is looser. Any1 got an idea how to fix this?
I just realized that it is very hard to figure out what exactly i mean. The cloth looks as if it has been thoroughly scratched. The marked area should show what i mean, its on the back as well. I am well aware of the fact that the jacket needs to be pressed, but i do not want to put in that much effort if the cloth is ruined.
Nobody?
 

Featured Sponsor

LARGE METAL WATCHES WITH TAILORING

  • Yes, I’m tacky like that.

  • No way José! Dress watch with leather strap for me!

  • No watch at all.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
466,669
Messages
9,990,694
Members
210,825
Latest member
Nielsjsc
Top