Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by dieworkwear, Aug 4, 2012.
My plans have been foiled!
It turns out that NSM always lines the sleeves.
^unlined sleeves are significantly harder to get in and out of though.
Yeah. That's what NSM said and that's why they always line the sleeves.
I just had a navy linen safari jacket made. Completely unlined, including the sleeves. I was actually worried about the same problem, but I can get in and out of it fine. You don't even notice it.
I don't have the garment on me right now, and am traveling for the next month, but in my head, this could be because of how the safari jacket has fuller sleeves? That might account for it, but I don't have my NSM sport coat and Ascot Chang safari jacket to compare.
As an aside, I couldn't afford to have the safari jacket made with a full horsehair canvas, so I just had them fuse part of the fronts (lapels and along the buttons/ buttonholes). I was a bit worried when it arrived fresh out of the box, as the lapels were pressed quite flat and the whole thing looked quite two dimensional. But after some wearing, the fused sections have softened up, and even taken on quite an impressive roll. I assume this is because of the heavy linen holding its shape? I thought it was kind of interesting, and have been wondering if I could get the same effect with a heavy cotton twill or tweed (am thinking about having two more safari jackets made from these materials).
I don't think that these standards necessarily apply to casualwear. A traditionally proportioned jacket, to me, looks odd with things like jeans. To me, it's nearly necessary to really mess around with proportion and/or materials, and or construction in order to get a jacket to look good worn casually. I usually go one of 2 routes - the first is a very short jacket with a boxy silhouette worn with very baggy (I'm talking Yamamoto level) pants. The second is one that is slightly longer, but still quite short by classic standards, and made from some sort of knit or boiled wool material. I stand at 5'11", and those jackets, for me, are between 28" and 29" measured in the back. Of course, those are more like cardigans in jacket form then anything else. Barena does a lot of these, and they look great worn casually. Brands like Boglioli (and especially their collaborations with the Japanese brand Kolor) and, well, Kolor, also do a terrific job. I sometimes like a longer skirt and very fitted silhouette - Dolce and Gabanna cuts these jackets incredibly well. They are much more built up than Neapolitan jackets - I think of them as the Continental fit with more sex appeal and swagger. But for those, I'll always have them in a very casual material, like a heavy flannel.
The A.P.C. jackets are a modern take on the quite boxy, Parisian silhouette. Sort of the male equivalent of the "Jolie laide" idea, which is often more interesting in the long run than plain "jolie".
If you are going to wear this jacket with chinos and some, I'm assuming, standard, Grensons, then do yourself a favor and get yourself a classically proportioned jacket. The advice that I gave, above, is for a more fashion look where you are really playing with proportions. I wear some super baggy heavy twill Cloak pants with the boxy, short, jacket, and the sweater/jacket is for my usual jeans and a tee and chukkas or kicks, and the longer jacket I actually wear with cargo styled pants (that's actually the way they were shown on the runway as well - sort of a "rugged gentleman" look. If you look at the FW12 edition of the Esquire BBB, you can actually see some decent examples of sports jackets worn casually and well, and in a fairly conservative way.
That's because some people have a profound lack of imagination. Look at some Japanese magazines, or even at a retail website like Silver&Gold or H&Sons, and you'll see how it can be done. The one thing that Italians do remarkably well is cutting so that everyone looks good. However, imaginative dressers, they are not.
This is probably true, but on the other hand, honestly, I think that MC is better for a beginner. Doing well in SW&D is much higher level. A professor once told me "You don't understand mathematics, you just become familiar with it." MC is a good place to get familiar with things.
Well, that look is ass. And I'm not talking about a nice firm one either. It's like an old man's skinny, flabby ass just hanging out there. There is nothing innovative there. Nothing fits well. And there is nothing exciting there either. So, you get the worst of both worlds. It's a boring look that apes a classic look poorly without adding anything to it. That styling and the photography looks like it was from The Corner. Some sad bastard deserves a full half day of slaps in the face for putting that together.
If you're going to have a jacket in a SW&D cut like that, then I think it shouldn't be gray flannel or any other classic suiting material. It's at odds with the look you're trying to create. The fit you posted feels very college kid trying to dress up.
dww - that's interesting about the sleeves. I used to have a linen SC with unlined sleeves - it was always a pain to get on and off. It might have been the cut of the sleeves though - are you usually wearing dress shirts underneath your SJ?
@LAGUY, thank you for taking the time to comment. Essentially, I am just looking for a blazer that can be worn with slim fitting jeans, chinos or cords, and I would like it to have a slim fit. I'm not looking for a longer, more formal suit jacket (which is why the APC cuts interest me).
I do see what you mean, but in terms of something that can be worn with a t-shirt underneath in spring, I can not be walking around in Harris Tweed. Ideally, I would like something cotton; however, most lighter jackets come with pants (and in this case you mentioned that they should be purchased and worn with those pants). I am a college kid, but I'm not really trying to "dress up". In fact, I hate wearing suits, and until I have to wear one to work I will avoid wearing the one I have as much as possible. I currently have a formal suit with padded shoulders and it fits great, but it's not something I'd wear casually by any means. A nice fitted jacket is all I'm looking for, and I'm not interested in buying any pants for it.
I would just go with one of the popular knit jackets that are popular right now. I really like Barena for this type of thing, but recently, I've been very impressed with Harris Wharf London, a newer company (I think that they are in their 4th season now) that does a really good job with felted wool jerseys, and does very interesting tweeds. Though wool, they are unlined, so you can get away with that type of stuff deep into spring, depending on where you live.
Something like this:
They also do a good job with linen blends in the summer. If you want something that you can just throw on with jeans, you might want to look to a brand like RRL, that specializes in this type of thing. Something like this: http://www.ralphlauren.com/product/...ivision_cs6_rrlsale&view=99&parentPage=family
is actually pretty awesome. Now, is it a "sportsjacket"? No. But it doesn't seem you really want a traditional sportsjacket anyway. I also wear this:
and Esemplare does a very nice wool version:
I'm really not a fan of those jackets. I'm really looking for more of a sport coat. I hate to bring j.crew into this type of thread, but I tried on Ludlow jackets today and they seem to fit me really well. I think I will go like something like that/this:
Maybe it isn't sartorially correct, but I just can't seem to understand what is so wrong with that look. But again, thank you for enlightening me on the topic.
I've only worn it around the house, since it's winter and this is a summer piece. But yes, I always wear it with a dress shirt underneath.
I suspect this is just about the cut of the sleeves.
I revoke that comment. That is in fact a tweed jacket. I think I get it haha.
Tweed isn't your only option. For winter, you've also got corduroy for the daytime and velvet at night. For summer, cotton, linen, seersucker...there are plenty of fabrics that dont look like a suit jacket.
To clarify, buying a jacket that's part of a suit is less of a sin if it's a casual fabric...basically anything that's not worsted wool or grey flannel, especially if it's not a solid color. Ideally you'd want rougher, nubbier, linen, say, for a jacket than the linen that you'd want for a suit. But especially for hat you're doing, it's not the end of the world to have a linen jacket out of a suit worn separately.
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