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MC General Chat

Nobilis Animus

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I don't have a problem with things influencing my behavior. This is capitalism (work for money) and socialization (social capital for good behavior). Individuals are nothing without groups, and groups set up reward systems to influence individual behavior.

I don't see targeted ads as a bad thing, as I would rather get ads that suit my interests than ones that dont. But if someone was purchasing things that fit the profile of someone who's about to do something bad, I would also want the government to do something about it. If you're buying stuff to make a huge bomb, I would hope the police knocks on your door.
The idea that individuals are nothing without groups is an interesting one, to say the least. Can't say that I share it.
 

smittycl

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I don't have a problem with things influencing my behavior. This is capitalism (work for money) and socialization (social capital for good behavior). Individuals are nothing without groups, and groups set up reward systems to influence individual behavior.

I don't see targeted ads as a bad thing, as I would rather get ads that suit my interests than ones that dont. But if someone was purchasing things that fit the profile of someone who's about to do something bad, I would also want the government to do something about it. If you're buying stuff to make a huge bomb, I would hope the police knocks on your door.
I agree for the most part. Even in the early days when Amazon only sold books I appreciated the eerily-accurate “You Might Also Like” recommendations. I think too much data, however, can lead to serious behavior manipluation especially to more witless folk, like Republicans for instance. :crackup:

Next up: Free Will vs. Determinism

Also, post-Oklahoma City, police must be informed of sales of a large list of items that can make bombs.
 

mossrockss

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I've never understood why people are so sensitive about this specific type of data. Medical records, yes. Criminal records, also yes. But shopping data? People have been tracking shopping data for decades, even pre-internet (why do you think stores give you club reward cards?). And yet, we all seem OK.
If it were just shopping data I don't think it would be as big a deal but the detailed profiles created without consent by extremely shady marketing agencies—including your location data, without your knowledge, because they place code in SDKs that app developers use to save time coding—is why people are not cool with it. It's far, far, far beyond knowing what you spent your money on at Kroger to give you coupons for butter.
 

dieworkwear

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If it were just shopping data I don't think it would be as big a deal but the detailed profiles created without consent by extremely shady marketing agencies—including your location data, without your knowledge, because they place code in SDKs that app developers use to save time coding—is why people are not cool with it. It's far, far, far beyond knowing what you spent your money on at Kroger to give you coupons for butter.
What do you think is at risk of someone knowing your location data coupled with your shopping habits?
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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my fundamental sense of privacy
Fair enough. If someone valued privacy as its own end, then I can see why this bothers them. I suppose I don't see the kind of consequences that otherwise get brought up. Or at least, to the degree that I can see that happening (e.g. the FBI paying you a visit if you buy a lot of bomb-making material), I'm fine with it.

Edit: Actually, I guess you can imagine some kind of future where the government has this data and then arrests people for buying a certain book. But that seems a bit far fetched to me, and I imagine the government has other surveillance tactics that it would rely on first, rather than look up your Amazon data.
 

clee1982

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Convenience vs. Privacy vs. Security, guess we will never truly agree, probably it will just evolve as event happen around us
 

mossrockss

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Fair enough. If someone valued privacy as its own end, then I can see why this bothers them. I suppose I don't see the kind of consequences that otherwise get brought up. Or at least, to the degree that I can see that happening (e.g. the FBI paying you a visit if you buy a lot of bomb-making material), I'm fine with it.

Edit: Actually, I guess you can imagine some kind of future where the government has this data and then arrests people for buying a certain book. But that seems a bit far fetched to me, and I imagine the government has other surveillance tactics that it would rely on first, rather than look up your Amazon data.
did the patriot act and the snowden-revealed government surveillance dragnet stuff bother you?
right-wingers always defended it kind of like that—"well if you're not a criminal then you have nothing to worry about."
 

Nobilis Animus

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Really? "No man is an island" is a fairly old concept, and can easily apply to shopping/dressing.
That individual people do not exist wholly apart from or unaffected by others in their society I do not doubt. What I disagree with is that they are "nothing" without those groups of people, or that their actions and decisions must necessarily be influenced by others. That strikes me as highly illiberal.
 

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Mahatma Jawndi
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did the patriot act and the snowden-revealed government surveillance dragnet stuff bother you?
right-wingers always defended it kind of like that—"well if you're not a criminal then you have nothing to worry about."
The Patriot Act bothered me when it first introduced, but over the last twenty years, I think my fears were overblown.

Do you believe that none of your shopping habits could have actuarial implications on your insurability?
Possibly, but we can just set up laws in those specific cases, no?
 

mak1277

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did the patriot act and the snowden-revealed government surveillance dragnet stuff bother you?
right-wingers always defended it kind of like that—"well if you're not a criminal then you have nothing to worry about."
Gov't surveillance does bother me, but similar surveillance by retailers does not. If the gov't wants to surveil me, it's going to do so...preventing retailers from doing it won't save me.
 

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Mahatma Jawndi
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Is it weird that the people who are most sensitive about privacy in this thread post photos of themselves in their home locations and write extensively about every little thing they purchased? And those who are not sensitive about privacy hide behind online screen names like Hax0r420 and Mr. Gucci?
 

mossrockss

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Is it weird that the people who are most sensitive about privacy in this thread post photos of themselves in their home locations and write extensively about every little thing they purchased? And those who are not sensitive about privacy hide behind online screen names like Hax0r420 and Mr. Gucci?
The key here is: explicit consent, or at least transparency in who knows what about you and what they're doing with that information.
 

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