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MC General Chat

whorishconsumer

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Is it the color or cap-toe Oxford bit that you dont like? I think a Black split toe derby looks good maybe from TLB or St. Crispin.
I'm not opposed to either elements. It just seems that oxford style is more suited to a degree of refinement that I only occasionally match in what I am wearing, undoubtedly because the dictates of Men's fashion have made it so. It has been stated here and elsewhere that there is nothing patently formal about an oxford anymore than a derby, but that they are just different means of constructing fit. The perception nonetheless holds.

There is also the issue of fit, as I have low arches and relatively narrow feet. For this same reason, though, I can see a split-toe derby potentially being too clunky, although I have been considering the style.

I have contemplated 2 eyelet derbies for a rakish or louche fit for that use case.

Crockett and Jones once had an appealing model that I think was only sold in their French store. Carmina used to have one on the Rain last which doesn't work for me. That model doesn't seem to be available in their current MTO offerings. Corthay has had them forever, usually in over the top colorways
I remain opposed to two-eyelets simply because of my long and narrow feet - I don't find them flattering for me.

I was considering double monks...
 

clee1982

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would not do double monk personally, is Adelaide too formal for you?
 

clee1982

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derby wise I would pick CJ Ashdown, it's just the right side of sleek and casual
 

whorishconsumer

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would not do double monk personally, is Adelaide too formal for you?
About as formal as a captoe, unless, perhaps in a color other than black.

derby wise I would pick CJ Ashdown, it's just the right side of sleek and casual
I am really not a fan of Scotch grain.

It's undoubtedly a frustrating endeavor to determine what works for me. I am, however, grateful for any inspiration.

There is a 80% chance I will end up with black captoe.
 

dieworkwear

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About as formal as a captoe, unless, perhaps in a color other than black.



I am really not a fan of Scotch grain.

It's undoubtedly a frustrating endeavor to determine what works for me. I am, however, grateful for any inspiration.

There is a 80% chance I will end up with black captoe.
I recently had this convo in another thread, but I think oxfords are limited unless you wear suits often. Since most guys don't wear suits often, I think they're better off with derbies. It's just easier to pair with sport coats. You can wear derbies with suits, but I think oxfords look off with sport coats.

In very traditional terms, country grain and derbies are basically sporting clothes. City clothes were worn with black oxfords. Translated, that means things such as derbies are worn with sport coats and tweed suits. Black oxfords are worn with dark worsted suits (what we would call business suits).

Some of this history is muddled because, as the history of the suit went on, people wore casual shoes with "city suits," So you had things such as tassel loafers with business suits, or "city" wingtips. For much of the suit's history, it wasn't considered a formal garment, but just what people wore.


tumblr_ougei8fakc1qa2j8co2_1280.jpg


tumblr_ougei8fakc1qa2j8co1_1280.jpg


tumblr_inline_ouor30jmkb1qhaans_540.jpg


The reverse, however, was generally not done. People didn't wear oxfords with sport coats. I know some guys who dress well and wear that combo nowadays, but I think sport coats still generally look best with derbies.

Example of a suit + oxford outfit

tumblr_4e741cbbce56ddd619b432ee573bd084_fca5f5ce_1280.jpg



And then sport coat with derby (these can also be worn with suits). Depending on the derbies, you can also wear them with jeans.

tumblr_pz6fekPfb81rf1jvro1_1280.jpg
 

clee1982

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About as formal as a captoe, unless, perhaps in a color other than black.



I am really not a fan of Scotch grain.

It's undoubtedly a frustrating endeavor to determine what works for me. I am, however, grateful for any inspiration.

There is a 80% chance I will end up with black captoe.
ash down come in plain leather as well, how about Alden cap toe blutcher
 

whorishconsumer

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ash down come in plain leather as well, how about Alden cap toe blutcher
I had a pair of Alden bluchers in cordovan on a modified Barrie last that were actually the best fitting shoe I've ever worn. I kick myself for having gotten rid of them. Generally, however, I find Alden, and particularly the bluchers, to be a bit frumpier and professorial a look than I go for.
 

clee1982

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yea, Alden is not particular sleek, especially not in barrie, how about these CJ for Bodiley

I "think" they're on 341, but better email bodiley to confirm (they couldn't diclose they're CJ publically or which last they're on)



 

imatlas

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Phoenician

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yea, Alden is not particular sleek, especially not in barrie, how about these CJ for Bodiley

I "think" they're on 341, but better email bodiley to confirm (they couldn't diclose they're CJ publically or which last they're on)



that first Bodily CJ black derby you posted is handsome!
 

Phoenician

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I have been of the long-held notion, fed by a decade of blog posts on essential footwear penned by material fetishists frequently photographed in Florentine alleys and cafes wearing Carmen Sandiego hats and demonstrating chaste enjoyment in the company of similarly-dispositioned men with facial hair and small, leather portfolios, that I need a pair of perfect black oxfords. Having not yet realized this mandate, and with nothing more meaningful with which to occupy my time, I have recently taken to fretting over which of a very expensive selection of this ur- item is for me, while continually running up against the reality that my feet aren't built for oxfords, let alone RTW, and customs and international shipping is expensive as fuck. I'm also continually reminded of the lack of utility of a black oxford in a closet that is, but for one, not comprised of suits.

Which brings me to the question: what dress shoe might be a better investment of my frivolous nitpicking? I have one pair of brogues in a cherry/burgundy that, until now, had served as my "dress shoe", as well as a growing collection of loafers. I don't feel it wise to invest in an almost duplicate of this shoe, so that leaves black derbies or brown oxfords or derbies, noting the constraint in finding a pair of the former style that actually fits. This seems like a sorry and limited selection and leads me to want to abandon the effort altogether. But then I am met with the limited nature of my dress wardrobe, which, I should note, I am trying to expand.

So, post pics of the dress shoes you wear, with an eye to versatility. Bonus points if you can demonstrate black oxfords not worn with a suit.
Lol, like your first few sentences there, quite fitting. I too have been feeling this, but I realized, much like Dieworkwear pointed out about men in general these days, that I’m only suit clad about 10% of the time, the rest is sport coats and trousers or such. Beacuse I also agree that staid oxfords don’t look right outside of a suit, I’ve resisted. I have a pair of wholecut single monks in black that look quite proper with the ten percent of the time I wear a suit. Unlike you however, my damn feet won’t fit derbies well without gaping on the side presumably due to low arches or some shit. That’s why I‘m on a Chelsea boot kick as of late; the elastic and leather hugging nature cradles my feet and they look good with sport coats, at least the ones I buy. A good middle ground I figure
I feel you, though, it’s a pain in the ass
 

whorishconsumer

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Lol, like your first few sentences there, quite fitting. I too have been feeling this, but I realized, much like Dieworkwear pointed out about men in general these days, that I’m only suit clad about 10% of the time, the rest is sport coats and trousers or such. Beacuse I also agree that staid oxfords don’t look right outside of a suit, I’ve resisted. I have a pair of wholecut single monks in black that look quite proper with the ten percent of the time I wear a suit. Unlike you however, my damn feet won’t fit derbies well without gaping on the side presumably due to low arches or some shit. That’s why I‘m on a Chelsea boot kick as of late; the elastic and leather hugging nature cradles my feet and they look good with sport coats, at least the ones I buy. A good middle ground I figure
I feel you, though, it’s a pain in the ass
I have three pairs of Chelseas. Granted they are all Saint Laurent/Celine, so either more or less fitting for formalwear. They do indeed fit me without concern.

Single monks/double monks continue to intrigue me. How about triple monks? Or six-buckle monks? How many buckles are acceptable?
 

Daniel Hakimi

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I have been of the long-held notion, fed by a decade of blog posts on essential footwear penned by material fetishists frequently photographed in Florentine alleys and cafes wearing Carmen Sandiego hats and demonstrating chaste enjoyment in the company of similarly-dispositioned men with facial hair and small, leather portfolios, that I need a pair of perfect black oxfords. Having not yet realized this mandate, and with nothing more meaningful with which to occupy my time, I have recently taken to fretting over which of a very expensive selection of this ur- item is for me, while continually running up against the reality that my feet aren't built for oxfords, let alone RTW, and customs and international shipping is expensive as fuck. I'm also continually reminded of the lack of utility of a black oxford in a closet that is, but for one, not comprised of suits.

Which brings me to the question: what dress shoe might be a better investment of my frivolous nitpicking? I have one pair of brogues in a cherry/burgundy that, until now, had served as my "dress shoe", as well as a growing collection of loafers. I don't feel it wise to invest in an almost duplicate of this shoe, so that leaves black derbies or brown oxfords or derbies, noting the constraint in finding a pair of the former style that actually fits. This seems like a sorry and limited selection and leads me to want to abandon the effort altogether. But then I am met with the limited nature of my dress wardrobe, which, I should note, I am trying to expand.

So, post pics of the dress shoes you wear, with an eye to versatility. Bonus points if you can demonstrate black oxfords not worn with a suit.
Okay, so here's my take.

For one, make sure you get sizing right. Look for local stores that carry excellent shoes, and try whatever you want on in person. This would also help you avoid customs and shipping! Win-win!

You say your feet aren't made for oxfords. You probably haven't found the right pair, but the issue here is that derbies are more forgiving than oxords, because of the open lacing. Oxfords, in turn, are more forgiving than loafers and the like, because loafers have no adjustable closure at all. Also note that leather will mold to your feet a bit over time, so you don't need to be too much of a perfectionist here, but you also don't want a bad fit just because it might get less bad over time.

You can consider a "lazyman" oxford -- designed to look like an oxford, but with an elastic closure. That sounds like a cheap thing, but so many great brands do it that it's actually completely legit. But that'd still be a little out of place with anything other than a suit. Maybe go for a full brogue, or something?

The most versatile options, in terms of being able to wear them with a suit or without a suit, are Chelsea boots (always wholecut or almost wholecut), or Loafers (sleek penny, in-beetween tassel, any horsebit, belgian but not for business). You definitely still want to try all of these on.
 

clee1982

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Speaking of lazyman check out these from yeossal, made in Vietnam? Handwelt.

 

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