MC General Chat

[Journeyman]

I've been away for a month and am just catching up on reading through threads, so these responses might be a bit out of date!

Re: Permanent Style's suggestions:

TBH, he seems to have handled the criticism fairly gracefully in the comment section. I don't think he meant that comment to be dismissive. But he prob has a point that PS is focused on the uppermost tier of men's clothing.

It's interesting to see how much things have changed over the years with Crompton and PS - he seems to have moved significantly upmarket over time.

In his 2019 "shop on a budget" article, Simon recommended bespoke clothing, GBP6000 watches and St Crispins' shoes. However, back in 2013, he suggested buying Charles Tyrwhitt shirts and having them altered by a tailor, and suggested Crockett & Jones shoes as great quality:

Permanent Style

How to buy good-value clothes

www.permanentstyle.com

Re: Shell cordovan:

though I don’t find cordovan that magical, if it rains takes forever to clean up, sold all mine...

It very much depends upon the shell and/or brand. I've never had an issue with water spots on my C&J shell - one quick wipe or brush and any marks are gone. However, my Carmina shell shows water spots much more clearly, and it takes a lot more work to get rid of the water spots. I usually give them a little cordovan cream and then clean with a cloth or brush to get rid of the spots, so it takes quite a bit more work than the C&J shell.

As a result, I'll happily wear C&J shell when it's raining, but I don't wear my Carmina shell if it even just looks like rain.

 

[Encathol Epistemia]

I studied linguistics as an undergraduate and one of the things that I learned is the concept of prescriptive and descriptive grammar. Prescriptivism is, bluntly put, the common English teacher's approach of various rules and shameful mistakes, such as not ending a sentence with a preposition*. Descriptivism is understanding and describing language as it is actually used, without reference to value judgements. The most challenging implicating of this for the standard average white suburbanite is appreciating that 'ebonics'** is not wrong, inferior of defective, but a different form of language, the apparent deviations whereof from General American English are not flaws or 'slang', but different rules that only appear wrong in the context of different forms of related languages. (The infamous, "X be goin," construction is, for example, a structure for expressing the habitual aspect, which General American English lacks)

The stigma against that form of language is a social one; it is not the prestige language. Yet, there is a practical reason why somebody who speaks that way should want to acquire proficiency with the prestige language, because others who cannot speak would struggle practically to work with somebody who does, even if that person were is without prejudice. Four generations back, my father's side of the family spoke thickly 'dutchified'*** English, but postwar physical and social mobility resulted in my father having just slight accent that only appears when among his older relatives and me speaking pretty much General American English, albeit in an affected style arising from me being a weirdo.

I am hesitant to insist that this kind of leveling should apply to dress or other practices and it's certainly less practically necessary that somebody dress in a way that is familiar to me than that somebody speak in a way that I can understand. I cannot help wondering, however, if it is inevitable that human societies will insist upon something analogous. Of course, whether they would even embrace somebody from an erstwhile stigmatized segment of society who articulated 'General American Dress' is troublingly uncertain. It also requires an analysis of what mode of dress is and does that I haven't really thought about as well as implicating some very difficult ethical questions that I only barely manage to carry on living by pretending to ignore.

*This, like most 'English Teacher' rules, is wrongheaded. The alleged prepositions in question are mostly verbal particles that are part of the verb. For example, in the phrase, "errant pedantry that I will not put up with," the, "with," is a part of the verb, "put up with," not an independent preposition. Such structures are common in other Germanic languages. For example, German Ich stehe um sieben Uhr auf. 'I get up at 7:00'. The verb is aufstehen, which separates into stehen and auf in many uses.

**This term is widely understood, but seems pejorative. Some linguists use the term "Africa American Vernacular English", which is an ungainly academicism ill-fit to popular use; linguist John McWhorter, who is an African American from Mount Airy, but does not speak it, prefers, "Black English."

***A form of English heavily influenced by Pennsylvania Dutch formerly widespread in parts of southeastern Pennsylvania. My mother has told me that when she met my father's great grandparents, she could seldom tell when they were speaking Dutch and when they were speaking English. Example phrase: "Outten the light," for 'turn the lights out'.

So as somebody who was deeply unhappy about shopping because of my weight I made a decision to change that. Though I realize not everybody has the iron-clad will to make one's self miserable like I do.

There are few things so disheartening as being reassured that the local 'big and tall' shop stocks 'good quality stuff', especially when only the first adjective applies. I recommend, from successful and difficult experience, using a spreadsheet to track your 'inputs' and result, even if it gets annoying or depressing.

 

[clee1982]

Re: Shell cordovan:



It very much depends upon the shell and/or brand. I've never had an issue with water spots on my C&J shell - one quick wipe or brush and any marks are gone. However, my Carmina shell shows water spots much more clearly, and it takes a lot more work to get rid of the water spots. I usually give them a little cordovan cream and then clean with a cloth or brush to get rid of the spots, so it takes quite a bit more work than the C&J shell.

As a result, I'll happily wear C&J shell when it's raining, but I don't wear my Carmina shell if it even just looks like rain.

I never had Carmina shell I had CJ (CJ for BB boots) and Alden (Alden for BB tassel loafer). Sold the Alden due to fit, as to the BB boots, just never found them that more magical than calf... guess shell are just different animal (no pun intended)...?

 

[smittycl]

I never had Carmina shell I had CJ (CJ for BB boots) and Alden (Alden for BB tassel loafer). Sold the Alden due to fit, as to the BB boots, just never found them that more magical than calf... guess shell are just different animal (no pun intended)...?

I have cordovan loafers from C&J and they are still a bit stiff to wear after six months of wear. Think I prefer calf overall and will not buy cordovan anymore.

 

[emptym]

^I like shell for boots and the unlined Alden/BB penny.

If you lost so much weight, why are you ordering a Black bespoke leather corset over in the N. Templeman thread?

I don't think he was serious.

Derek @dieworkwear
...
Like with everything, I think the respectability concept you're talking about has noble intentions at its roots (one should respect others and have a sense of decorum in how they dress; every culture in world history has rules of decorum in dress) that human nature sinful choice ultimately corrupts, and the gestures become simply outward acts while the inward person remains unchanged, or possibly worse because as F.E. Castleberry says, the better dressed you are, the worse you can behave (ugh I can't stand that guy).
...

I agree 99%, with the one percent corrected above (since nature is good).

 

[mossrockss]

^I like shell for boots and the unlined Alden/BB penny.

I don't think he was serious.

I agree 99%, with the one percent corrected above (since nature is good).

Fair enough. Though Paul writes that nature is subject to decay and groans for redemption, just as we do.

 

[emptym]

Sounds good, but we are redeemed from sin, not from our nature. Decay and corruption come from sinful choice, which is a failure to act according to our nature/the way God made us.

 

[smittycl]

Is this where I admit to getting kicked out of Sunday School at age 10?

 

[norMD]

^I like shell for boots and the unlined Alden/BB penny.

I don't think he was serious.

I agree 99%, with the one percent corrected above (since nature is good).

Neither was I.

 

[dieworkwear]

@mossrockss @UrbanComposition is there a way to see that IG story you guys posted of the Monitaly parachute bomber? I'm kind of obsessed with it and want to see the back of the garment. Is that file uploaded anywhere?

 

[mossrockss]

@mossrockss @UrbanComposition is there a way to see that IG story you guys posted of the Monitaly parachute bomber? I'm kind of obsessed with it and want to see the back of the garment. Is that file uploaded anywhere?

I have no images of it.
If it isn’t in the video that Ari posted to the Styfo stories, I’m not sure if there’s any other image. @UrbanComposition?

 

[mossrockss]

I have no images of it.
If it isn’t in the video that Ari posted to the Styfo stories, I’m not sure if there’s any other image. @UrbanComposition?

Actually i have more pics on my computer than i do my phone/iPad. I’ll take a look to make sure when i get a chance

 

[dieworkwear]

Actually i have more pics on my computer than i do my phone/iPad. I’ll take a look to make sure when i get a chance

Just realized vendors may not want images of their booth and upcoming products posted online. FWIW, Monitaly posted a side shot of the bomber on their IG which is what prompted my question. But if it's not kosher to post pics publicly, I'd also understand.

 

[Nbarbar]

I wonder if Monitaly and Epperson Mountaineering sic are working together? A lot of the details from Epperson's apparel collection are shared with Monitaly, including labels. That bomber jacket reminds me so much of this Epperson piece.

Two great lines.

 

[UrbanComposition]

@dieworkwear it should still be on the stories...let me see if I can find it