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MBA admissions: gmat, work experience, etc.

GQgeek

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http://www.mbaprograms.org/mbaadmission/7criteria2.asp


A Typical Class Profile
Given all the differences among the top schools, I'm always surprised at the consistency they show when selecting their classes.
At most of them, approximately 60 to 65 percent of admitted students will come from finance and consulting backgrounds. Below is a typical admit profile.
The finance and consulting are the best backgrounds from which to apply (they offer the most spots), but as I've already mentioned, a disproportionate number of people apply from those backgrounds, making them very competitive categories.
The consistency in class composition should tell you something about how admissions officers choose their classes. Namely, if you come from a finance background, you will, for the most part, compete only with other finance people for the limited number of finance spots available.
If you are a consultant, you will compete with other consultants. It's more a practice dictated by circumstances than an explicit policy acknowledged by admissions officers (though some acknowledge it).

Although there are no strict quotas for each category, the final numbers are amazingly consistent from year to year regardless of the number of finance or consulting people who actually apply.
So the overwhelming number of applicants from a few categories, coupled with the need to assemble a diverse group, in effect, forces admissions people to pit consultant against consultant and investment banker against investment banker, even without a policy to do so.
And it makes sense to me to compare apples to apples. After all, what criteria would you use if you had to choose between an asset manager and a software engineer?
Is there much truth in this article with regards to how admissions boards select their class? If so, it's encouraging to me since I won't have the IB/consulting experience but will have significant experience in software development which directly relates to streamlining business processes. I could write some really good essays based on the role i've taken and the work i've done on a couple big projects. All things being equal (a high GMAT score), I always assumed I'd be going head to head with the finance/consulting guys at significant disadvantage, but this presents a different picture.

Moving on, it also suggests that you stay within your industry before you apply so that you can bring an in-depth experience of it to composition of your class. This suggests that I should stick with IT, even though I might otherwise be disinclined to. Right now my job is almost entirely programming, but next year since I really crave change I could make a switch but stay within IT to get a broader set of experience within the industry.

The last concern for me is when to apply. By the time I graduate, I'll have 3 years of full-time programming experience. I was also enrolled full-time for 2 of those years. Every app I look at specifies 2 years of post-grad work experience. Is that just a reflection of the fact that most applicants don't work "real" jobs until they graduate and that this assumption is built in to the wording on the app? If so, I shouldn't have to worry, but if they are anal about it, I should. My concern is, obviously, that I will apply and be rejected on the basis of insufficient experience, despite a high gmat and achieving a good gpa (in my last 2.5 years) while working full-time. If that were the case, the above guide presents a fairly convincing argument that I would not be in the most enviable position to re-apply the following year, in which case I should just wait and apply later.

Lastly, would you guys advise taking a prep course? I'm a very good test-taker, but it's been ages since I'd done the type of math that's on the gmat. I could easily re-learn it myself, but maybe there are other things to gain from prep courses that would help with my score. I'm really looking to be in the ballpark fo 700 so that I can apply to the top programs.
 

VKK3450

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I'm hella busy, so dont have time for a long reply. All I can say is dont overanalyze MBA admissions. For the GMAT run a couple of Kaplan practice tests to get a feel for the format and you will see whether you need work. Its not hard to break a 700.

Work your essays. Everyone applying has strong GPAs and high GMATs. Essays are the thing that set you apart. Show that you can bring something to the discussions that happen in class. That you can not only benefit from, but that you will benefit the program

10 years of crap work experience is not worth 2 sollid years. Demonstrate that you have moved up, taken initiative (proper creative / strategic, not that you are first one to volunteer to get coffee), sought out new responsibilities and brought new ideas to reality. I think that having managed other people is key. That you have done something rather than just watching some servers, writing some code and fixing some bugs (not saying thats you).

IT is a difficult one these days because most schools are trying to maintain a certain international balance and there are swarms of Indian and Chinese IT guys applying to every top school. Many of them are grunts or low level team leads / PMs, so its not hard to differentiate yourself, but make sure you do it.

Where are you planning on going?

K
 

RJman

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Ooh, you can talk about your entrepreneurship with your guild raiding parties back in the day where you guys were selling stuff for thousands of dollars each month!
 

Thomas

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Originally Posted by VKK3450
I'm hella busy, so dont have time for a long reply. All I can say is dont overanalyze MBA admissions. For the GMAT run a couple of Kaplan practice tests to get a feel for the format and you will see whether you need work. Its not hard to break a 700.

Work your essays. Everyone applying has strong GPAs and high GMATs. Essays are the thing that set you apart. Show that you can bring something to the discussions that happen in class. That you can not only benefit from, but that you will benefit the program

10 years of crap work experience is not worth 2 sollid years. Demonstrate that you have moved up, taken initiative (proper creative / strategic, not that you are first one to volunteer to get coffee), sought out new responsibilities and brought new ideas to reality. I think that having managed other people is key. That you have done something rather than just watching some servers, writing some code and fixing some bugs (not saying thats you).

IT is a difficult one these days because most schools are trying to maintain a certain international balance and there are swarms of Indian and Chinese IT guys applying to every top school. Many of them are grunts or low level team leads / PMs, so its not hard to differentiate yourself, but make sure you do it.

Where are you planning on going?

K


+1 on pretty well all counts.
 

countdemoney

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Originally Posted by GQgeek

The last concern for me is when to apply. By the time I graduate, I'll have 3 years of full-time programming experience. I was also enrolled full-time for 2 of those years. Every app I look at specifies 2 years of post-grad work experience. Is that just a reflection of the fact that most applicants don't work "real" jobs until they graduate and that this assumption is built in to the wording on the app? If so, I shouldn't have to worry, but if they are anal about it, I should. My concern is, obviously, that I will apply and be rejected on the basis of insufficient experience, despite a high gmat and achieving a good gpa (in my last 2.5 years) while working full-time. If that were the case, the above guide presents a fairly convincing argument that I would not be in the most enviable position to re-apply the following year, in which case I should just wait and apply later.


It has a bit to do with age as well as experience. They can't say age because that would be discrimination. They are looking for mature folks to graduate from their programs and become business leaders. Most early 20's can't pull that off.



Originally Posted by GQgeek
Lastly, would you guys advise taking a prep course? I'm a very good test-taker, but it's been ages since I'd done the type of math that's on the gmat. I could easily re-learn it myself, but maybe there are other things to gain from prep courses that would help with my score. I'm really looking to be in the ballpark fo 700 so that I can apply to the top programs.

What are you looking to get out of it? If you want to go to Harvard or similar, you want scores that are very high.

You'll also want to show some personality. You're going to be a business leader when you graduate. In today's world that typically implies other types of community leadership as well.

You should hit up vault.com if you haven't already.

In your case, I'd question the benefits of a meaningful (i.e. full-time) MBA. The normal guidance is that the MBA or other professional degree is only worth it if you will double your salary. Based on what you've said of your lifestyle previously, I don't know that this would be true.

If you are looking to get an MBA so that you can more quickly move into mgmt, I would look at something local and part-time. You keep your good salary, potentially have work subsidize a portion of it and you have the resume check box.

Not trying to harsh your mellow, just being pragmatic. Remember, it's not how much you make, it's how much you keep.
 

Soph

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I would stress to only go to the absolute best schools. Get your company to pay for it if that is ever a possibility for you. Due a complete analysis of your skills and interests and see where your passion lies. Once you're in I think you will be suprised by many of the students. Also look at the best schools in the specialty you want to pursue, for example, Wharton and Chicago for Finance or Kellogg for Marketing. I'd do your best to go the the top school in their particular specialty. I have a preference for Chicago GSB myself. Also, if you do go or graduate from one of these, please don't brag about it. Just let it speak for itself and don't put MBA on your business card or power points.

This is also very helpful:
CAREERLEADER
Welcome to CareerLeaderÂ
00ae.png
, the most respected and comprehensive business career development tool on the Internet. This program is a fully integrated approach to business career self-assessment developed by Dr. Timothy Butler, Director of MBA Career Development Programs at the Harvard Business School, and Dr. James Waldroop, Dr. Butler's associate at HBS for 18 years. This interactive, online program is currently being used by over 400 top businesses and universities around the world to help guide their employees and students.
 

Piobaire

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G33k:

The big question is whether you plan to do this in Canada or the US. That is going to affect your options much more than any other variable I can think of.
 

Bradford

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I wouldn't think you need a review course for the GMAT. I used the Princeton Review book. It had lots of good tips and I thought it prepared me for the test very well.

http://www.amazon.com/Cracking-GMAT-...9769620&sr=8-1

I can't really help with your other questions as I had been out of school for nearly 20 years before I applied.
 

GQgeek

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Thanks for the replies, guys.

Originally Posted by countdemoney
What are you looking to get out of it? If you want to go to Harvard or similar, you want scores that are very high.

You'll also want to show some personality. You're going to be a business leader when you graduate. In today's world that typically implies other types of community leadership as well.

You should hit up vault.com if you haven't already.

In your case, I'd question the benefits of a meaningful (i.e. full-time) MBA. The normal guidance is that the MBA or other professional degree is only worth it if you will double your salary. Based on what you've said of your lifestyle previously, I don't know that this would be true.

If you are looking to get an MBA so that you can more quickly move into mgmt, I would look at something local and part-time. You keep your good salary, potentially have work subsidize a portion of it and you have the resume check box.

Not trying to harsh your mellow, just being pragmatic. Remember, it's not how much you make, it's how much you keep.


I hear you, but I need an MBA because i want to do a total switch to IB. For IB, I need to go to specific schools.

Originally Posted by Piobaire
G33k:

The big question is whether you plan to do this in Canada or the US. That is going to affect your options much more than any other variable I can think of.


Well, originally I was thinking I would just go to York straight out of undergrad. It's the top-ranked school in canada and I think the economist put it at #15 worldwide this year. It's not a bad choice by any means. But, having come-off my best term yet, even though I had to work like a dog (at work) during final exams, I'm thinking that I should aim for the top US schools. As soph said, if you're going to spend the money, you may as well do it at the very best school you can get in to. In the grand scheme of things, the difference between 60k and 80k is nothing.

What I have to figure out is when to apply. I know that I could apply to york and have a fairly good chance of getting in for september 2009. If I were to apply to a top US School, I think i'd need to add something to my application.

I have some very good work experience, but I was thinking that next year I could go work for an ngo or something in south america. I wouldn't even care if I got paid. I'd be able to achieve fluency in a 3rd language, show my leadership skillz, and really just transform myself into a more unique and well-rounded candidate. On the other hand, if I were to stay at my current job, or even get a slightly better one, I wouldn't be adding much that was new to my resume. Working for an ngo would provide significant new experiences, that, at least in my opinion, would be attractive to admissions boards. Does anyone have any thoughts on this or other similar options?
 

GQgeek

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Originally Posted by Soph
I would stress to only go to the absolute best schools. Get your company to pay for it if that is ever a possibility for you. Due a complete analysis of your skills and interests and see where your passion lies. Once you're in I think you will be suprised by many of the students. Also look at the best schools in the specialty you want to pursue, for example, Wharton and Chicago for Finance or Kellogg for Marketing. I'd do your best to go the the top school in their particular specialty. I have a preference for Chicago GSB myself. Also, if you do go or graduate from one of these, please don't brag about it. Just let it speak for itself and don't put MBA on your business card or power points.

This is also very helpful:
CAREERLEADER
Welcome to CareerLeaderÂ
00ae.png
, the most respected and comprehensive business career development tool on the Internet. This program is a fully integrated approach to business career self-assessment developed by Dr. Timothy Butler, Director of MBA Career Development Programs at the Harvard Business School, and Dr. James Waldroop, Dr. Butler's associate at HBS for 18 years. This interactive, online program is currently being used by over 400 top businesses and universities around the world to help guide their employees and students.


What do you mean by this?
 

Piobaire

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G33k, NGO in a developing nation would rock your B-school resume. Anything non-traditional really stands out.
 

DNW

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I'm actually thinking about doing an MBA program in the next few years. Is there any program out there that focuses on political risk management? I'd imagine such a program has courses on polisci, polling, market research, risk analysis, and strategy. Am I just thinking wishfully?
 

Piobaire

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Originally Posted by DarkNWorn
I'm actually thinking about doing an MBA program in the next few years. Is there any program out there that focuses on political risk management? I'd imagine such a program has courses on polisci, polling, market research, risk analysis, and strategy. Am I just thinking wishfully?

Not my field of expertise by a long shot, but I think U of Mich has a strong poly-sci re: polling etc., and they have a kick ass MBA. Maybe worth looking into there?
 

lawyerdad

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Originally Posted by Soph


CAREERLEADER
Welcome to CareerLeaderÂ
00ae.png
, the most respected and comprehensive business career development tool on the Internet. This program is a fully integrated approach to business career self-assessment developed by Dr. Timothy Butler, Director of MBA Career Development Programs at the Harvard Business School, and Dr. James Waldroop, Dr. Butler's associate at HBS for 18 years. This interactive, online program is currently being used by over 400 top businesses and universities around the world to help guide their employees and students.


This sounds worse than waterboarding.
 

Bradford

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Originally Posted by DarkNWorn
I'm actually thinking about doing an MBA program in the next few years. Is there any program out there that focuses on political risk management? I'd imagine such a program has courses on polisci, polling, market research, risk analysis, and strategy. Am I just thinking wishfully?

I have not heard of an MBA program focusing on politics, but I have heard good things about the Masters of Political Management at George Washington University.

http://www.gwu.edu/~gspm/academics/index.shtml

A friend who is one of McCain's top guys was a guest lecturer there a few years ago.
 

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