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Material technology advancements and effects on industry. (Natural vs Synthetics)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by ChaoSki, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Patrick R

    Patrick R Distinguished Member

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    Fair points. I saw it with my own eyes in an advanced research lab last Thursday. We'll see it in the world at large this generation.
     

  2. Blake Stitched Blues

    Blake Stitched Blues Senior Member

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    Except that modern society as we know it wouldn't exist without synthetic materials. Literally everything around you is made from them. Since you're typing from a computer you have to be aware of this. Without synthetic materials and plastics we'd regress back to Industrial Revolution-era lifestyles.
     

  3. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    If you're following this discussion you already know that I acknowledged that fact.

    On the other hand, I don't think we need to go back that far--pre-Petroleum Age perhaps--but all thing being equal, life is not significantly more satisfying or "better" now. Just different...and cheaper.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018

  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    What class of synthetics plastics were "recycled" in the lab? And what was the end product?

    PS...anecdotal testimony is not object evidence either. It's prima faciea hearsay.
     

  5. BenjaminZeev

    BenjaminZeev Senior Member

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    I'd don't know what you have been looking at, but going simply by total co2 output, China and India may have a high rank (1 and 3, USA is 2) but their per person is low compared to USA, Russia, Japan, and Germany. India has very low per person. China is getting towards the European countries. If you are talking about other environmental issues they tend to vary. Recently China has been shifting pork production to the USA due to lax regulations (in the USA). Really the whole pollution issue is very complex. So while China may be the wold's largest producer of greenhouse gasses it is also the largest investor in alternative energy sources. In general I think most nations other than the USA are working towards clean, renewable energy, but at this point it is a necessity.

    Re:Sustainability/Ethics

    Regarding plastic, plastic tends not to be recycled even when it can (I think only about half is ever recycled). The promise of enzymes to break down plastic (as others have mentioned) is true. But it has not been demonstrated on a useful scale, and it would be very hard to implement even if the researchers reach their goals for the enzymes. You can't just let them out into the environment. There are a lot of plastic things we don't want to degrade.

    Regarding the waste of livestock. There is a huge amount of land which is well suited for livestock that is not suited for agriculture. It is pretty easy to envision the ethical, sustainable, and environment friendly use of livestock for fiber, milk/cheese, leather, meat. People have been doing that for thousands of years. Sure in some countries (like my USA) factory farms are not any of ethical, sustainable, or environment friendly. But look at the wool or beef industry in Australia. It is pretty decent.

    In I don't see any ethical argument that would put synthetics ahead of animal or plant fiber unless you are the try that thinks it is no OK to shear sheep. But then you get into the argument of who picks your cotton...
     

  6. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Stylish Dinosaur

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    Precisely. There is no need to invoke a progress narrative that suggests we would "regress" to any previous "stage." The whole idea is premised on the ridiculous notion that we are evolving into something higher than we once were. Indeed, I would guess that more than a few of the people who were alive during the industrial revolution might think that we had regressed from their time.
     

  7. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    The real problem is that this thread...from the subject line to the OP hisownself...is just one of an endless variation of the "Help me find animal cruelty-free shoes" thread that pops up here ever so often. It's intentionally provocative and fundamentally trolling, despite the amusement and entertainment it provides.
     

  8. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Again I would agree. Any serious (if not professional) historian would, I suspect. And just for clarity and to augment my point--it's life itself that is cheaper in this cultural, if not material, environment.
     

  9. BenjaminZeev

    BenjaminZeev Senior Member

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    Historians try not to specify things as progress or regress anymore. While that certainly was once a strong thread in many schools of though (Marxism and 1920s US Progressive come to mind), it tends to obscure any point more than it is helpful.
     

  10. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Stylish Dinosaur

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    Marxist historians do still exist, though they tend to obscure themselves in the title "materialist" these days. I say that with all the respect in the world, but still with deep reservations about how they conceptualize history. I'll restrain myself further because this can become a rabbit hole, and one not particularly desirable to most people who have come here to talk about clothes. :)
     

  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    If you're following this conversation you will know that I made that point myownself in post #63.

    At the same time, it gives the lie to the old saw that "those who cannot learn from the past are condemned to repeat it"--that bit of wisdom suggests a progression from ignorant and dismal to enlightened and happy. Clearly that's not the case for modern tymes relative to earlier ages. Perhaps medicine is the only thing that may have unequivocally progressed...in some case.
     

  12. BenjaminZeev

    BenjaminZeev Senior Member

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    There defiantly are still Marxist historians doing relevant work but they have changed with the times. I should I made clear I was referencing early Marxists historians.

    Edit: But yes, maybe historiography is a bit off topic
     

  13. BenjaminZeev

    BenjaminZeev Senior Member

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    Sorry, I thought you were speaking generally not in reference to professional historians
     

  14. Patrick R

    Patrick R Distinguished Member

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    PET to terephthalic acid and ethylene glycol.

    Your PS is comical. Hopefully one day you get to enjoy it as much as I do. Thank you.
     

  15. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    And those are precursor chemicals that can be utilized by other lifeforms? Or in other natural processes in support of life forms?
     

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