Massdrop x Styleforum x Panta Madder Tie GMTO (official collaboration)

[jrd617]

Maybe it doesn't matter for Madder? (no pun intended)

These were macclesfields silks

 

[C&A]



Maybe it doesn't matter for Madder? (no pun intended)

These were macclesfields silks

could be. i don't know. the david evans recreation was a panama weave. let's see what ed has to say about it.

 

[edmorel]



could be. i don't know. the david evans recreation was a panama weave. let's see what ed has to say about it.

I think Capelli probably misunderstood the question. Both of my tie makers cut at 45 degrees, I know nothing of tie making but my Italian maker has been around forever and makes for their own high dollar brand and others.

Here is Drakes cutting at 45 degrees:

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2010/feb/06/make-a-silk-tie

And if you go to Sam Hober's site, it's the same thing. I've never seen a tie not cut at 45 degrees.

 

[jrd617]

I think Cappelli was saying that that particular Macclesfield fabric works better when the flowers are oriened in the horizontal orientation, as it was printed in that way.

If you were to rotate the pattern on the table and cut it so the flowers are diagonally oriented and then make a tie in the diagonal orientation, the fabric would not hang well.

Again, I could be completely wrong as to what he meant (semi garbled english), but he refused to make a tie for me that had the fabric rotated. Said that taking tie A and turning it into tie B was not well advised

Maybe it doesn't apply to Madder and panama weave silk

 

[LA Guy]

@jrd617 , if you read his reply, it's completely consistent with what Ed just posted:

This is not possible. I hope to explain, the ties are cut at 45 degrees, the design depends on how
you have printed.
1) the ties must be cut on the bias

For the ties as you like them, had to be printed as they
appear in my photo
2) For the ties to have the pattern diagonal, the material had to be printed horizontally, as appears in the tie on my picture

But they are printed as are in your photo and when i do they are as in my
photo.
3) However, the are printed diagonally, as in your picture, therefore when I cut it on the bias, the pattern with appear horizontally, as in my picture.

 

[LA Guy]

I've also never seen anyone cut a tie not on at the 45 degree angle. I suppose that that might just be sampling bias, of course, but it's highly unlikely.

 

[jrd617]

Technical stuff aside, I prefer this. Is this how it could be made?

Over this

 

[jrd617]

For reference, here's a year old thread where we talked about something similar

http://www.styleforum.net/t/376427/a-study-in-necktie-geometry/0_50

 

[Academic2]

I've also never seen anyone cut a tie not on at the 45 degree angle. I suppose that that might just be sampling bias, of course, but it's highly unlikely.

Yes.

Aren’t we just talking about “bias cutting”?

According to Sarah Gibbings, the cutting on the bias (45 degrees to the warp or weft) dates from 1920, and is attributed to Jesse Langsdorf. I think it’s now pretty standard.

“Instead of cutting a tie shape straight down a piece of material, Langsdorf cut it on the bias, or diagonal, maximizing the natural elasticity of the material. The best angle of bias, he discovered is 45 degrees, which allows the aprons of the tie to drape and fall straight from the knot. If a tie is cut off-bias it will pull off-center and fall crookedly.” The Tie: Trends and Traditions, NY, 1990: 96-7.

It’s part of what Gibbings (and others?) call “resilient construction,” concerning which she says

“Important features are the bias cutting of both shell and blanket (lining) material, and slip-stitching of the two. Resilient construction gives the tie the best draping qualities and allows for easy and effective knotting.” Ibid., 154.

I remember having an e-mail conversation with David Hober about this, back when I was trying to determine how a Macclesfield swatch he sent me would actually look when made into a tie.

Beautiful silk in this thread, by the way. I take it that custom length is not an option.

Cheers,

Ac

 

[edmorel]



Technical stuff aside, I prefer this. Is this how it could be made?

Over this

Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier. The bottom is the fabric swatch. The top is the fabric as a tie (fabric cut on bias).

 

[dieworkwear]

.

 

[LA Guy]

Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier. The bottom is the fabric swatch. The top is the fabric as a tie (fabric cut on bias).

Just a suggestion to both you and @brillopad : maybe it's a good idea to show the pattern as it will show up on the tie, since it will clearly eliminate some confusion.

 

[sprout2]

@jrd617 , if you read his reply, it's completely consistent with what Ed just posted:

This is not possible. I hope to explain, the ties are cut at 45 degrees, the design depends on how
you have printed.
1) the ties must be cut on the bias

For the ties as you like them, had to be printed as they
appear in my photo
2) For the ties to have the pattern diagonal, the material had to be printed horizontally, as appears in the tie on my picture

But they are printed as are in your photo and when i do they are as in my
photo.
3) However, the are printed diagonally, as in your picture, therefore when I cut it on the bias, the pattern with appear horizontally, as in my picture.

Thank you for decoding that. Finally makes sense.

 

[LA Guy]

Thank you for decoding that. Finally makes sense.

Like an internet Sherlock Holmes. Or Poirot, maybe, is closer.

 

[jrd617]

Well I sort of understand what Cappelli was saying now... it seems that bias IS preferable for ties. Springier and more wrinkle resistant that way?

So I got it backwards. The original pictures I sent to Cappelli (A and C) WERE on the bias. When I rotated them 45 degrees, they became non-bias, and thus less preferable for a tie. At least that's what I gather from @Academic2's post and the Cappelli email text.

Either, way I think those rust ties are great looking. I'd buy A13 or B12, though leaning towards A13 in that diagonal layout