Massdrop x Styleforum x Panta Madder Tie GMTO (official collaboration)

Discussion in 'Preorders, Group Made-to-order, trunk shows, and o' started by brillopad, Aug 12, 2015.

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From which fabrics would you be interested in making a tie? See swatches below.

Poll closed Aug 20, 2015.
  1. A1

    15 vote(s)
    11.4%
  2. A2

    7 vote(s)
    5.3%
  3. A3

    15 vote(s)
    11.4%
  4. A4

    8 vote(s)
    6.1%
  5. A5

    6 vote(s)
    4.5%
  6. A6

    8 vote(s)
    6.1%
  7. A7

    7 vote(s)
    5.3%
  8. A8

    5 vote(s)
    3.8%
  9. A9

    20 vote(s)
    15.2%
  10. A10

    3 vote(s)
    2.3%
  11. A11

    25 vote(s)
    18.9%
  12. A12

    12 vote(s)
    9.1%
  13. A13

    33 vote(s)
    25.0%
  14. A14

    13 vote(s)
    9.8%
  15. A15

    10 vote(s)
    7.6%
  16. A16

    16 vote(s)
    12.1%
  17. B1

    24 vote(s)
    18.2%
  18. B2

    11 vote(s)
    8.3%
  19. B3

    5 vote(s)
    3.8%
  20. B4

    5 vote(s)
    3.8%
  21. B5

    6 vote(s)
    4.5%
  22. B6

    13 vote(s)
    9.8%
  23. B7

    10 vote(s)
    7.6%
  24. B8

    22 vote(s)
    16.7%
  25. B9

    10 vote(s)
    7.6%
  26. B10

    28 vote(s)
    21.2%
  27. B11

    15 vote(s)
    11.4%
  28. B12

    63 vote(s)
    47.7%
  29. B13

    21 vote(s)
    15.9%
  30. B14

    39 vote(s)
    29.5%
  31. B15

    12 vote(s)
    9.1%
  32. B16

    6 vote(s)
    4.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. edmorel

    edmorel Quality Seller!! Dubiously Honored

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    @brillopad

    A poster n another thread brought up a correct point. These are not "ancient madder" ties and shouldn't be sold as such. I described them as madder like and think that is appropriate.
     


  2. xizenta

    xizenta Senior member

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    Ed thanks a lot for doing this. I ended up buying three after the navy was added.
    I expect I will be happy with these.

    Please consider doing more in the future. :)
     


  3. Engi

    Engi Senior member

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    Just bought the blue one ...

    [​IMG]
     


  4. CBrown85

    CBrown85 Senior member

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    What's the difference between an "ancient madder" and simply "madder" patterned tie?
     


  5. Murlsquirl

    Murlsquirl The Moral Squirrel Dubiously Honored Moderator

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    A couple hundred years or so [​IMG]
     


  6. edmorel

    edmorel Quality Seller!! Dubiously Honored

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    dieworkwear made a post about it but basically ancient madder dye was extracted from specific plants in a manner which has been considered environmentally damaging and no longer done. So a true, historical ancient madder silk is no longer made. Ancient madder ties are still made though, using synthetic methods (I'm paraphrasing here from dieworkwear). So if you are looking for a new ancient madder tie made with silk dyed the old way, they are no longer made. If you are looking for an ancient madder tie where that term is applied more loosely, then there are ties available.
     


  7. Academic2

    Academic2 Senior member

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    Drake's claims the old way is still done, but only in England:

    http://www.drakes.com/details/ties/ancient-madder

    Perhaps there are national differences in how the term is used?

    Just to be clear, I don't care about the definition for purposes of this thread. These fabrics are lovely and the ties are a real bargain. I don't care what we call them.

    Others may feel differently, of course.

    Cheers,

    Ac
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015


  8. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    Ancient madder is still produced in England. My point was that the "ancient" part is a bit of a misnomer, as the thing that originally made them ancient was the method of deriving the dye. The dyes used to be taken from a European plant, which had a root that was commonly used to dye regal clothes in ancient times. Now that we use sythetically derived dyes, the "ancient" part is just a holdover from what we used to call these silks

    AFAIK, Drake's uses synthetically derived dyes for their "ancient" madders. They could be using multiple printers, but I spoke to one confirmed place last year. The owner of the place claimed they were the only Macclesfield producer of real ancient madder, and he confirmed they were using synthetically derived dyes. He said nobody wants the "real" ancient madders anyway because the dyes are too inconsistent. So every 12.5 yards or so, the red dye might vary ever-so-slightly -- enough for customers to complain when they're made into ties. Synthetic dyes allow them to get better consistency.

    Anyway, my point really was just that the ancient part has to do with the dye extraction method, not the printing method. You can have ancient madders that are screen or ink jet printed. The term just refers to a chalky-feeling silk.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015


  9. Murlsquirl

    Murlsquirl The Moral Squirrel Dubiously Honored Moderator

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    Interesting. Thanks for the info.
     


  10. teddieriley

    teddieriley Senior member

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    Wait, you smell that?
    Does madder refer both to the fabric itself and associated feel and the general patterns used (eg florettes or geometric shapes)? Any real quality difference in screen printing vs ink jet printing? Had no idea these patterns are printed simply using an ink jet printer.
     




  11. heldentenor

    heldentenor Senior member

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    Madders can come in a variety of patterns, from small neats to big squares and medallions to wild non-repeating paisleys (all of which can be found in non-madder ties). In general parlance it refers to the luminosity of the silk; madder has a distinct, muted dustiness to it that originally came from the gum silks on which it was printed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015


  12. xizenta

    xizenta Senior member

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    Apparently in the MassDrop discussion an admin said that the 9CM ties are outnumbering the 8CM ties sold at a 4 to 1 ratio.
    I also strongly prefer 9cm ties as I think that 8cm ties are too narrow at the knot to have a decent looking cleft. They always end up looking awkward in my experience.

    I wonder if this will inspire Panta to change their default width on their website?
     


  13. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    8cm, A13.
     


  14. heldentenor

    heldentenor Senior member

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    Contrarian.
     


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