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Mark of an inferior shoe? (Toe spring or no?)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Threadbearer, Feb 20, 2012.

  1. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    If "many many men (sic)" are saying different things, some...most, perhaps...have to be wrong. It stands to reason. And those who buy into those "different things" without experience or reason (logic, thought, deliberation) will be wrong as well.

    If the shoe is built correctly, the heel will sit flat when the last is in the the shoe.

    If the last is designed correctly, part of its function is to support the foot.

    The shoe does bear weight in the waist--from the heel height to the treadline (ball of the foot).

    The shank support is like a bridge from the height of the heel to the ground. As with any bridge made of flexible or weak materials it will sag under load.

    If, as many high end manufacturers (and some bespoke makers) insist on doing, a wooden shank support is used in a shoe, chances are high that the shoe will begin to break down under the weight of the foot. Maybe even immediately. This is one reason a heel can appear to be high at the breast.

    If such a heel is left alone, the breast of the heel will push up--to its original position during wear and weight bearing--the way the shoemaker and the last maker (and presumably God) intended.

    If the heel is "leveled" the breast cannot return to its "lasted" position and it will fail to support the arch of the foot. Do this enough...or enough times...and the shoe is ruined.
     


  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    In all the years I have been making shoes and boots I have yet to hear a rational or mechanically sound explanation why lower toe spring is wanted on a shoe.

    To the contrary, the theory is...based on the mechanics of the foot during gait...that the higher the heel on the shoe the less toe spring is needed. And vice versa.

    All things being equal--heel height, last length, construction and leather--a low heeled shoe with less toe spring will crease more deeply than a low heeled shoe with more toe spring. It stands to reason.

    It may be what customers want to see, but that doesn't make it rational.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012


  3. eg1

    eg1 Senior member

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    Indeed, though, "Use every man after his desert, and who would 'scape whipping?"
     


  4. Costanza

    Costanza Senior member

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    Cool. This sounds similar to the camber sometimes built into structural members in buildings and is visible in some unloaded flat beds. The original shape counters the deflection expected under load.
     


  5. zippyh

    zippyh Senior member

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    :slayer::slayer::slayer:
     


  6. Son Of Saphir

    Son Of Saphir Senior member

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    lt make sense.



    Me think Delos do wood shank.
    see 14:30 on youtube
    !
    Me maker do wood shank.
    You see wood shank ever break DW?

    lnteresting.


    lt make most sense.
     


  7. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Too many times to count or cry about. That said most of my work over the last 40 years has been making footwear that was meant to be "ridden hard and put up wet." Not worn once every blue moon on red carpets.
     


  8. iroh

    iroh Senior member

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    good to hear. I just bought a brand new pair of aldens derbys and when i took them out of the box and took a look i knew there were not going to last. i originally planned to wear them for about 50 years as my daily shoes, but they just seem so flimsy i was somewhat disapointed. i defintiely know i would not have bought these shoes if i had seen them in person, such trickery alden uses to fool its customers. i will be surprised if the shoes even last 5 years. seems like such a waste of money to spend $600 on shoes that will last only 5 years. doing the math, that means $120 per year, as opposed to $12 per year if they last the normal 50 years like they are suppose to. next time i know i will stick with crocket and jones and allen edmonds if i want footwear to be "ridden hard and put up wet" as you put it, they have proven themselves.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012


  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Everything is relative, of course. An old dear friend of mine used to say "compared to what?"
     


  10. iroh

    iroh Senior member

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    I expect quality RTW shoes to last 50 years.

    I expect quality bespoke shoes to last 100 years.

    This is with hard! wear!, that means worn daily for 10 hours a day everyday (with topy replaced as needed).
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012


  11. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Senior member

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    I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not. 15-20 years for a Bespoke shoe with resoles every 5 or so years would be a more rational estimate. A friend of mine used to buy AE's and his daily walk to work about 25 blocks caused them to break down every 6 months, and this being holes in the soles, and the leather cracking sometimes even breaking completely. He is trying out C&J's now and they seem to be holding up a lot better.
     


  12. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    :crackup:

    don't forget to rotate them. no shoe can be worn everyday to good effect.
     


  13. dandy1

    dandy1 Senior member

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    i walked around crockett and jones and every single shoe has a gap under the heel ..it definately isnt comfortable as others have said on here, the problem is that the shoe may well straighten with your weight as you stand on the shoe, but you are then in effect bending an inch of sandwiched heel leather which strains the muscles in the feet and legs.

    what are peoples experiences with lobb, EG heels? is there a gap under them as well?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012


  14. dandy1

    dandy1 Senior member

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    interesting that SF members view is that C&J is fantastic, especially at that mid tier price point.. i am personally questioning whether some of these widely held beliefs on SF are true or not !
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012


  15. blahman

    blahman Senior member

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    Doesn't matter what the rest of the forum thinks. Put your shoes on. Judge for yourself on whether they feel uncomfortable under foot.
     


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