Manton - rules applied to ties

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Carlo, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    Got in the first 16 patterns for our new collection today (40 more coming next week) and some are a bit off the beaten path. Â Disclaimer: Â Yes, shameless self promotion but a couple questions to get some further feedback from you guys. Disclaimer two - I did not flip on the entire lighting system and don the 100 sunblock for shooting these, quick/dirty as we have a bunch of shippin to do today before invading the studio. Disclaimer 3: Â We did several patterns that are more mainstream and usual. Â We're struggling to keep a balance between safe, steady, conservative and ...what we really want to do. Â After a few thousand hours working with patterns you start finding yourself attracted to 'different' and sometimes have to remember the old "Hey dumbass - do it in red and keep it simple" rule. Â Jill gets full design credit - she's the one who 'sees' it in her head before it is made up and then I pipe in with the 'What if we do (insert ridiculous demand here)'. The ones below are all Como series double 4 folds. Â For Sartorial Excellence in NYC we'll lift the curtain on the new signature series - those are all available as either the double 4 or unlined 7 construction depending on preferences with some other surprises we'll talk about soon. First... Â Cashmere - we released one as a test last year and it came out better than we hoped so we built on that one to put out a full spread. Â The concept: Â For some rougher tweedy sportcoats and some more casual looks I like cashmere in a tie - shiny silks seem to transition awkwardly to a rougher wool sportcoat. Â Especially a casual one worn over a sweater... Thing is, I hate most cashmere ties - the texture isn't quite right and they are too dull and lifeless. Â They are also far too thick to do in a folded tie and too lacking in stiffness to work for an unlined folded tie.... and they stretch out because they are too loosely woven. So... we played around with mixing silk and cashmere to get a less shiny tie that still catches the light a bit. Â Kinda funny really, when we were working with the weavers and explained what we wanted to do he decided we were out of our minds. Â Actually I'd type what he said but those who speak Italian would have me banned for it. Â In the end we found that if you use very very long, fine cashmere (which is quite expensive from what Ernest tells me) and weave it just as if it were silk in about a 60-40 cashmere silk blend you get something wondrous to behold (and 23 very expensive failed experiments, ouch.) Â ...not too worried about revealing a trade secret on that one - anyone dumb enough to try it, go for it. ..just don't blame me, Â Pics don't really do justice to the hand of this stuff but many of you will 'beholding' it in a few weeks and can opine. Â Anyway the ones below are cashmere with the silk only visible in the pattern (stairstep or stripes) for just a little shine. Â The two striped ones have olive and brown fields respectively. Â Interested in Manton and others take on this slightly more 'casual' tie. Â I think it is 'warmer' if you will - going for the country doctor elegance (just to annoy Ernest, an always pleasant diversion from life's dreariness). [​IMG] Next, and I fully expect Manton to call me a blasphemer for this but.... Ceremonials... Â There is a trend toward long ties with formalwear - some folks are just tired of bowties. Â I also like these for very dressy evenings out. Â The cream colored (lousy pic, better ones to come) paisley is the shade of most wedding gowns and also looks very elegant with several other outfits. Â This is one of Jill's babies so I'll let her put some looks together to shoot it with. Â The paisley is of course woven in - I hate the lifelessness of printed paisleys... they remind me of wine with a screwtop - no nuance, no character. Interested in Manton's thought with long ties for ceremonial... others as well. Â Love it? Â Hate it? Â [​IMG] Finally - Nick asked about more large herringbone or stairsteps. Â I know the one he has in mind and we just did it in red but we also played with adding stripes as we did a 'test' one a few months ago that worked out well. Â Stripes are another area where I get incredibly bored by the lack of tactile interest in prints... Â these are a little more ...lively, if you will. [​IMG] Okay - back to actual work - I simply can't be around new ties without having anyone around to elbox and say "OOOh, OOH. look at this." Â People on the street give me weird looks but you guys seem to find me (almost) normal.
     


  2. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

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    Who?. [​IMG] Great stuff, Chuck.
     


  3. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Save one of those cream ceremonials for me. Definitely up my alley - woven *and* paisley. Strictly against the rules according to Flusser et al. But everyone knows my opinion on that matter already.
     


  4. trogdor

    trogdor Senior member

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    That woven paisley one is gorgeous -- it looks like a brocade kind of finish. Nice.
     


  5. jester

    jester Senior member

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    Hard to get a sense of the cashmere blends from the picture--I look forward to seeing them in a few weeks. The middle maroonish one is the most interesting to me.

    I don't like long ties with formalwear of any kind, period. But I do like, occasionally, a silver tie with a dark suit and white shirt, as a particular kind of dressy look. In fact I do this with one of the Como series ties--don't see it on the site now, but it's a dark silverish thing. Looks great this way.
     


  6. amirrorcrackd

    amirrorcrackd Senior member

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    I'll third the comments about the ivory paisley. Beautiful.

    Dan
     


  7. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Long ties are fine with formal day wear.  I don't like them for evening dress.   But they can dress up a dark suit, so that it is "almost" as formal as a dinner jacket.

    I love cashmere and cashmere-blend ties, and will even wear them with worsted suits, in winter.
     


  8. Etruscan

    Etruscan Senior member

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    All very beautiful offerings (but then I favor woven patterns virtually to the exclusion of printed ones). I concur about the unsuitability of four-in-hands for evening wear (I mean with dinner jacket). It'll be interesting to see whether this practice is a passing trend, or becomes an accepted standard alternative (which gradually even naysayers lless hard-shelled than myself might in time adopt). With the Oscars coming up at the end of the month, we can all judge for ourselves. I must say the four-in-hand for evening bothers me far less than the Regis-influenced all-black evening wear look that was misguidedly affected by some in the '90s.

    Lastly, as to the concern about cashmere (or perhaps knit ties generally) having too matte an appearance, I find this is offset by a silk pocket square.
     


  9. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    Chuck ... no offense, but your designers really need to start thinking outside the triangles: [​IMG] But seeing as how you're usually a nice fellow, I'll relieve you of one each of those herringbones. BTW, are they pre-tied like mine or the dumb old-fashioned kind where I have to make a knot?
     


  10. oscarthewild

    oscarthewild Senior member

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    Not quite what I meant not appropriate for business
     


  11. amirrorcrackd

    amirrorcrackd Senior member

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    Is that RLPL? Dan
     


  12. linux_pro

    linux_pro Senior member

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    The ceremonials are gorgeous. I am going to pick both up. I have a Gucci fairly similar to the striped ceremonial, but it's a little dull for my taste (it's a sort of muted beige which doesn't seem to work with any shirt that I try). So hopefully I can replace it with the striped ceremonial.

    I love the paisley. Can hardly wait to add that to my collection, it is stunning.

    Awesome ties, Chuck, especially the paisley, I just can't stop looking at it.
     


  13. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    No. It's CKPL (Conrad Kabbaz Private Label) from his younger days. He's more mature now. Third grade will do that to you.

    Hey. Keep your snide comments to yourself. I'm trying to work a licensing deal with Chuck here.
     


  14. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Is that RLPL?
    No. It's CKPL (Conrad Kabbaz Private Label) from his younger days. He's more mature now. Third grade will do that to you.
    Hey. Keep your snide comments to yourself. I'm trying to work a licensing deal with Chuck here.
    HAHAHAHA Jon.
     


  15. Renault78law

    Renault78law Senior member

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    That's a sweet CKPL tie. Looks like a true two fold (no lining), self-tipped, hand rolled...appears to be 100% hand made actually, probably in the USA. May I inquire as to the weaver? Looks like NYT's, sports page edition.
     


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