Malaysian bespoke

[TheTukker]

Originally Posted by Svenn

I agree with apropos, except for the part about Chan- they're still far below the standards of better Western tailors and I'll never get another suit made by them.

Don't even go their Svenn, unless you're happy to agree with all the nonsense that he wrote in his last three 'contributions' to this thread.

 

[wiimii]

...

 

[Maccimus]

Originally Posted by wiimii

What you are saying is fair.


However,

take a look at this thread again: Critique my first bespoke suit...

Quite a number of members are trying to enlighten madjbs,

without knowing that they are the madjbs' in the real world.


It is not only the technical skills,

it is the aesthetics that people are inadequate.


By the way, good tailors carry good fabrics

no matter which part of the world they are.

"Asian or otherwise tailors" indeed pay more

for good fabrics from UK and Italy

than their "white counterparts."


If you are looking for decent suits,

expect to pay more for both labor and fabric,

either on Savile Row, via Filangieri, or in Asia.


Comparing a $500 suit with a $1,500 suit is absurd.

Comparing a $500 suit with a $5,000 suit is ridiculous.

But this is exactly what these two threads are about.


Instead of criticize, complain, or "feel burned" by

those $500 or $1,500 suits you or others paid,

why not pay your "Asian or otherwise tailors" £3,000

and see what he is capable of?

I agree with 90% of your statement.

That thread is different. The boy paid $500 for a fully-fused polyster suit and still believed it was of good value. As many members have said, fused MTM suits are cheap as dirt in SE Asia.

And I know there are many cheap Asian tailors know nothing about how to make a fully-canvassed suit. No one taught them, they simply can't, no matter how much you pay.

They still survive in the market because there are many many people in the world who only need cheap passable suits, while cheap OTRs are far from passable.

 

[Stylistix]

This thread is quickly getting out of hand and topic. For those of you still wondering, my initial question was whether the 'fold' or 'drape' (dont know the correct technical term') on the back of the sleeve is something that Ah Loke does (to allow arm movement?. See highlighted picture below:

I've seen some with vertical folds / drape (?) at the upper back piece (instead of the sleeves), akin to the drape you see in the front in a 'drape cut' suit. Picture below has a slight 'vertical fold / drape' on the upper back.

Style issues aside, could someone chime in with pictures (real life) of the 'correctly fitted' (per Manton?) back of a suit (neck, upper back, sleeves, waist etc)?

 

[hymo]

Originally Posted by Stylistix

Hi there dont mean to rain on your parade, but the the jacket seems to have 'folds' on the upper sleeve behind the armsyce (3rd picture from top). Is that standard of Ah Loke Tailor?

Contrast with this DB by Graham Browne on Permanent Style

What other tailor in the vicinity of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia would you recommend, hymo? I'll be dropping by both Malaysia and Singapore in April, and plan to commission a suit and a couple of shirts.

I think apropos is a net negative to this thread, and clearly walks around with something long, sharp and spiky shoved up him (by an Asian tailor).

Stylistix: The "proper" way to provide for drape to allow for upper body ROM is a generous upper back width which will result in vertical folds of cloth in the vicinity of the rear armscye when worn by the customer.

However, no tailor I've been to in Malaysia seems to do it this way. Some make a jacket you cannot move in. Suits are largely ceremonial in Malaysia. You get wed in one, you get buried in one. Nobody cares about drape.

With Ah Loke, he traditionally puts the drape at the back of the rear upper sleeves, which is generally not done in other parts of the world with more sophisticated tailoring, which results in the messy upper sleeves you see in my linen jacket. I noticed this during the fitting, and told him to clean it up. He told me it will restrict ROM, and I said do it anyway. He then proceeded to pin up the back of the sleeves (where the messiness is) and asked me if I would accept something like that. The jacket felt considerably more restrictive, and no, I cannot live with something like that. So I said to proceed with the sleeves as they are.

In my latest suit (the navy DB), I made it clear to him I wanted synthetically clean sleeves and to put all the drape where good tailors put theirs: on the back panel, through a wide upper back.

The result is as you see: clean sleeves, with blades of excess cloth in the vicinity of the rear armscye.

 

[hymo]

What other tailor in the vicinity of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia would you recommend, hymo? I'll be dropping by both Malaysia and Singapore in April, and plan to commission a suit and a couple of shirts.

I have this hobby of popping into tailoring shops and interviewing the tailors I find therein. The situation in KL is dire. Most tailors here are incompetent at what they do. Most aren't even tailors. They are small business owners who happen to peddle something called suits.

The most SF-conform tailor in KL is probably Ah Loke because of all the stuff he made for me and frinds of mine.

Bespoked in 1U is an upscale (read: exuberantly priced) tailoring shop that attempts to invoke an association with Savile Row in most aspects of their operations (http://www.bespoked.com.my/). Here is a sample of their work on a real customer:

 

[GBR]

Originally Posted by hymo

I have this hobby of popping into tailoring shops and interviewing the tailors I find therein. ]

Maybe wasting their time as you have little intention of buying from them?

 

[Svenn]

Originally Posted by hymo

Stylistix: The "proper" way to provide for drape to allow for upper body ROM is a generous upper back width which will result in vertical folds of cloth in the vicinity of the rear armscye when worn by the customer.

Yes, 'vertical' is the key here. The reason is intuitive- when you reach forward with your arms, it tightens the fabric laterally from the upper sleevehead through the upper back... vertical folds are the only folds that would allow excess fabric to give out in that lateral strain. Which is why in hunting jackets, requiring lots of mobility, you see pleats like this one:

Originally Posted by hymo

However, no tailor I've been to in Malaysia seems to do it this way. Some make a jacket you cannot move in. Suits are largely ceremonial in Malaysia. You get wed in one, you get buried in one. Nobody cares about drape.

I've noticed the same in Thailand.

 

[Bounder]

Originally Posted by Stylistix

This thread is quickly getting out of hand and topic. For those of you still wondering, my initial question was whether the 'fold' or 'drape' (dont know the correct technical term') on the back of the sleeve is something that Ah Loke does (to allow arm movement?. See highlighted picture below:

I think the problem here is just sleeve pitch. IIRC, Hymo said getting this right had been an issue.

 

[Stylistix]

Originally Posted by hymo

I think apropos is a net negative to this thread, and clearly walks around with something long, sharp and spiky shoved up him (by an Asian tailor). Stylistix: The "proper" way to provide for drape to allow for upper body ROM is a generous upper back width which will result in vertical folds of cloth in the vicinity of the rear armscye when worn by the customer. However, no tailor I've been to in Malaysia seems to do it this way. Some make a jacket you cannot move in. Suits are largely ceremonial in Malaysia. You get wed in one, you get buried in one. Nobody cares about drape. With Ah Loke, he traditionally puts the drape at the back of the rear upper sleeves, which is generally not done in other parts of the world with more sophisticated tailoring, which results in the messy upper sleeves you see in my linen jacket. I noticed this during the fitting, and told him to clean it up. He told me it will restrict ROM, and I said do it anyway. He then proceeded to pin up the back of the sleeves (where the messiness is) and asked me if I would accept something like that. The jacket felt considerably more restrictive, and no, I cannot live with something like that. So I said to proceed with the sleeves as they are. In my latest suit (the navy DB), I made it clear to him I wanted synthetically clean sleeves and to put all the drape where good tailors put theirs: on the back panel, through a wide upper back. The result is as you see: clean sleeves, with blades of excess cloth in the vicinity of the rear armscye.
Thank you for the explanation. So the 'proper' back would have small vertical folds on the upper back panel, behind the armsyce. How do you transfer that 'drape' from the sleeve to the back? And is it standard of Ah Loke, or does one have to be 'firm' with him to get it?

Originally Posted by hymo

I have this hobby of popping into tailoring shops and interviewing the tailors I find therein. The situation in KL is dire. Most tailors here are incompetent at what they do. Most aren't even tailors. They are small business owners who happen to peddle something called suits. The most SF-conform tailor in KL is probably Ah Loke because of all the stuff he made for me and frinds of mine. Bespoked in 1U is an upscale (read: exuberantly priced) tailoring shop that attempts to invoke an association with Savile Row in most aspects of their operations (http://www.bespoked.com.my/). Here is a sample of their work on a real customer:

Silhoutte looks bad - eventhough back seems relatively clean, the vent flares out, and accentuates his 'manly' curves (at least to my eyes). By SF conform, you mean hand sewn buttons, pick & pad stitching etc? What about tailors that are great 'fitters', regardless if they're 'truly bespoke' with all the handmade stuff? For me, the most important thing is getting the best fit and silhoutte. I've been told by colleagues from Kuala Lumpur that there are many tailors in malls - Sungei Wang, Ampang Park and the like. Since you seem to be the resident KL expert, what would you recommend (or rather try yourself) other than Ah Loke, Bespoked, or some of the other more well-known shops (hint: family-run business). I'll be stationed in KL for awhile, so I'd rather develop a bespoke relationship than have a hit-or-miss experience with any of the more well-known tailors, who are more likely to give newcomers less attention

 

[apropos]

Originally Posted by Lonneker

Don't even go their Svenn, unless you're happy to agree with all the nonsense that he wrote in his last three 'contributions' to this thread.
Wait, you're the guy who thinks that Jantzen shirts are good enough, right? Right. So you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. So please, butt out.

 

[Stylistix]

If any of you are seeing that ImageSha-gged frog, please login or register an account

 

[TheTukker]

Originally Posted by apropos

Wait, you're the guy who thinks that Jantzen shirts are good enough, right?

Right. So you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

So please, butt out.

Almost: I have said that, with some qualifiers, Jantzen can represent good value for money.

Interesting to see how you're not addressing any of the other points in my post; you're probably "intellectually lazy".

 

[hymo]

Originally Posted by Stylistix

Thank you for the explanation. So the 'proper' back would have small vertical folds on the upper back panel, behind the armsyce.

How do you transfer that 'drape' from the sleeve to the back? And is it standard of Ah Loke, or does one have to be 'firm' with him to get it?



Silhoutte looks bad - eventhough back seems relatively clean, the vent flares out, and accentuates his 'manly' curves (at least to my eyes).


By SF conform, you mean hand sewn buttons, pick & pad stitching etc?

What about tailors that are great 'fitters', regardless if they're 'truly bespoke' with all the handmade stuff? For me, the most important thing is getting the best fit and silhoutte.

I've been told by colleagues from Kuala Lumpur that there are many tailors in malls - Sungei Wang, Ampang Park and the like. Since you seem to be the resident KL expert, what would you recommend (or rather try yourself) other than Ah Loke, Bespoked, or some of the other more well-known shops (hint: family-run business). I'll be stationed in KL for awhile, so I'd rather develop a bespoke relationship than have a hit-or-miss experience with any of the more well-known tailors, who are more likely to give newcomers less attention

Drape the proper way is not yet part of standard Ah Loke cut. You have to impress upon him at the very beginning that is non-negoatiable.

By SF conform, I mean a balanced jacket with a clean back, a generous lapel roll, lightly padded shoulders, a collar that hugs the neck no matter what, a gorge dart to control the lapel crease edge from gaping open (especially important with fused jackets which have no bridle in the lapel crease edge to draw it in), strong waisting, etc.

(Few tailors do full canvassing. Many have not even heard of it, or have not heard of it in decades. The standard construction is the fused jacket.)

Also,almost no tailor in Malaysia does hand-sewn buttonholes anymore, I have so far found 2 exceptions, AL being one of them. But they are done in polyester thread -- most of us who use him supply our own silk twist (unobtainable in Malaysia).

I have been inside maybe 60 or so tailoring shops here in Malaysia and have "interviewed" for technical proficiency maybe 2 dozen tailors. There is not a single accomplished tailor amongst them, as in one I need give no technical direction. But I give technical direction for a living, and manage engineers, so it comes naturally to me.

The shopping malls you named have a particularly high percentage of foreigners/tourists.

If I knew of a better tailor I would be using him already.

 

[Stylistix]

Originally Posted by hymo

By SF conform, I mean a balanced jacket with a clean back, a generous lapel roll, lightly padded shoulders, a collar that hugs the neck no matter what, a gorge dart to control the lapel crease edge from gaping open (especially important with fused jackets which have no bridle in the lapel crease edge to draw it in), strong waisting, etc.

That gorge dart is placed under the collar / lapel? I thought this was supposed to avoid break in the lapel?

Can one ask Ah Loke for canvassed / pad-stitched lapels?