Malaysian bespoke

[hymo]

Originally Posted by Bounder

Yes, that's what Vox dubbed a Swiss Army Suit (as in Swiss Army knife) when he had one made. I am impressed that you had it done double-breasted. I assume you did the cuffs, too. How many buttons did you have him put on each cuff? Do you know how much he is charging for a sportscoat now? How is his cloth and can you supply your own? But the point here is none of us will have to do that as you have already broken him in, as it were. We all want stuff much like you have already trained him to make. Of course, you won't want to give your name but perhaps you could provide us and your tailor with a code word we can use. "Please give me a hymo suit!" Well, probably not that, but you get the idea.
I always get 3 buttons on the cuff.

He does not charge a fixed price. He opens with an optimistic price, it is up to you to haggle it down. I have never used his cloth, I bring my own. He has adopted many elements of my cut into his standard make. He used to cut really deep armholes, but now cuts as a matter of course the highest I've seen in this country. This is after he almost burst an artery arguing with me over armholes on my first commission. Shoulder padding is pretty moderate, though I still have to insist on less on each and every commission. Balance is almost always good. Sleeve rotation is still a sore point -- I make sure he gets them right on mine, but with other customers he never bothers.

 

[Stylistix]

Originally Posted by hymo

I went and had myself a linen jacket made. 11.5 oz Italian linen, Bemberg Ambiance half lining, white MOP buttons.

Hi there dont mean to rain on your parade, but the the jacket seems to have 'folds' on the upper sleeve behind the armsyce (3rd picture from top). Is that standard of Ah Loke Tailor? Contrast with this DB by Graham Browne on Permanent Style

What other tailor in the vicinity of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia would you recommend, hymo? I'll be dropping by both Malaysia and Singapore in April, and plan to commission a suit and a couple of shirts.

 

[apropos]

Save your money, and get stuff made at a proper tailor who you do not have to micromanage. If you have the means, saving money by trying to micromanage cheap Asian tailors is more often than not being penny wise & pound foolish - as the results on this thread testify. For all the crappy stuff on this thread the OP could have gotten maybe 1 or 2 really good outfits from a proper tailor. The machine-work on the lapel in the linen jacket above is execrable, and the handworked buttonholes are, frankly, poor. The styling is perfectly nondescript and can be found in great abundance on racks in departmental stores. In essence, nothing communicates that it is a bespoke outfit any more than decent-fitting RTW. Chances are you will not like what you get and if you are doing CMT you have just wasted good fabric on tailoring that is literally worth less than the fabric. The 'bespoke experience' is nothing to write home about either, unless you consider literally having to fight your tailor at every stylistic/construction step a fun experience. There are 2 major differences between the cheap-Asian & expensive-elsewhere tailors - pride in their work & simple honesty. There is simply too often no pride in the final product which translates into shoddy workmanship, a lack of concern for the customer, and silly avoidable mistakes. Simple honesty is lacking in the sense that if mistakes are made, they will be hidden (or otherwise not communicated to the customer) or shortcuts in material/workmanship which benefit only the tailor will be taken. Work is almost always outsourced to external workshops or home sewers and the potential for miscommunication is high. There is sometimes a propensity to go for quick minimal-effort small-time financial gain in Asia/China - and it shows in the tailoring. This advice is all from personal experience. In a nutshell - go to a proper (white or otherwise) tailor.

 

[wiimii]

...

 

[apropos]

It is the intellectually lazy path to categorise whatever you disagree with as 'racist'. It's a good one-size-fits-all type of rebuttal that often means nothing at all when you really think about it, and especially so in this context - since you are implying that pointing out shoddy workmanship and ho-hum styling and recounting one's personal experience = racism. Look at the wandering machine-made line of stitching along the lapel/collar of hymo's jacket - that's acceptable?

Accompanying your non-sequitur rebuttal with some random-ass pseudo-wise quips that don't make any sense isn't exactly doing your case any favours either. In addition to my experience, hymo has also gone through here how hard he has had to push for certain details to be done his way, so it's clearly not limited to me. Others here, including PG have migrated from Asian tailor to Asian tailor, and at present PG is actually trying out Aussie-based MTM, which IMO says a lot. Think about it - is it really a stretch of the imagination to imagine that an Asian who tailors to live (as opposed to lives to tailor) for a meagre living in a developing country could pull off something that other Western tailors in other countries with centuries of tradition do? Really? Do people not restricted by a small budget really go to cheap Asian tailors as a first port-of-call to get that suit they always wanted? At best all you get is a poor budget-level fascimile of that nice Italian or English number you really wanted, which is in a nutshell the state of most Asian tailoring today.

 

[ColdEyedPugilist]

Originally Posted by apropos

Often, it is the intellectually lazy path to categorise whatever you disagree with as 'racist'. It's a good one-size-fits-all type of rebuttal that often means nothing at all when you really think about it, and especially so in this context.

I also didn't realise that pointing out shoddy workmanship and ho-hum styling = racism. In addition to my experience, hymo has also gone through here how hard he has had to push for certain details to be done his way.

Think about it - is it really a stretch of the imagination to imagine that an Asian who tailors to live (as opposed to lives to tailor) for a meagre living in a developing country could pull off something that other Western tailors in other countries with centuries of tradition do? Really?

Do people not restricted by a small budget really go to Asian tailors as a first port-of-call to get that suit they always wanted?

At best all you get is a poor fascimile of that nice Italian or English number you really wanted, which is in a nutshell the state of most Asian tailoring today.

Is this a suitable paraphrasing of your posts?

"From my personal experience and that of others, many Asian Tailors in developing countries are not as capable as their foreign counterparts in more developed countries. This may be because of a not unreasonable emphasis on making a living as opposed to passion for the craft. Also, they may not be able to access the immense body of tailoring knowledge that the more established tailoring houses possess."

If so, then I would advise removing sweeping generalities, mate. After all, ability and passion in any field cannot be purely attributed to a particular race, only individuals.

W W Chan is apparently an excellent bespoke operation. On the other hand, my first bespoke suit was constructed by someone (a 'white' tailor in a developed country) who failed to deliver.

As for whether someone of means would visit Chan or say... Huntsman... as their first port-of-call, I would say that it often comes down to location, location, location.

I do agree that cheap and good is a rare occurance.

Just sayin, mate.

 

[apropos]

Yes, that is an accurate paraphrasal. I would like to add that tailors who by nature cater mostly to customers with suspect taste in tailored clothing (i.e. Asia - both locals and foreigners looking for cheap suits) are hardly reliable when it comes to making good looking garments. Chan is hardly a 'cheap Asian tailor', and surprise surprises - they have a tailoring tradition - so my original statement still stands. My original post was in reference to those cheap and cheerful tailors like Ah Loke, Iris, et al that you have to cajole, push and micromanage in order to get a passable result that even then isn't much better than decent fitting RTW, as the results on this thread, my own personal experience, and that of friends who have been burned attest. Some would try and drag this into some racial quagmire, but like I pointed out - how the hell are they (cheap Asian tailors) expected to be good when they lack the training, the motivation, the environment and the demand for that? Not sure where you are going with the white tailor in developed country comment since I mentioned specifically that a proper tailor, white or otherwise, is what you should be looking for in my original comment. And what is a proper tailor? One who can teach you something, not the other way around.

 

[Stylistix]

Originally Posted by apropos

Save your money, and get stuff made at a proper tailor who you do not have to micromanage.

If you have the means, saving money by trying to micromanage cheap Asian tailors is more often than not being penny wise & pound foolish - as the results on this thread testify. For all the crappy stuff on this thread the OP could have gotten maybe 1 or 2 really good outfits from a proper tailor. The machine-work on the lapel in the linen jacket above is execrable, and the handworked buttonholes are, frankly, poor. The styling is perfectly nondescript and can be found in great abundance on racks in departmental stores. In essence, nothing communicates that it is a bespoke outfit any more than decent-fitting RTW.

Chances are you will not like what you get and if you are doing CMT you have just wasted good fabric on tailoring that is literally worth less than the fabric. The 'bespoke experience' is nothing to write home about either, unless you consider literally having to fight your tailor at every stylistic/construction step a fun experience.

There are 2 major differences between the cheap-Asian & expensive-elsewhere tailors - pride in their work & simple honesty.

There is simply too often no pride in the final product which translates into shoddy workmanship, a lack of concern for the customer, and silly avoidable mistakes. Simple honesty is lacking in the sense that if mistakes are made, they will be hidden (or otherwise not communicated to the customer) or shortcuts in material/workmanship which benefit only the tailor will be taken. Work is almost always outsourced to external workshops or home sewers and the potential for miscommunication is high.

There is sometimes a propensity to go for quick minimal-effort small-time financial gain in Asia/China - and it shows in the tailoring. This advice is all from personal experience. In a nutshell - go to a proper (white or otherwise) tailor.

I may have missed your post on your Asian experience, but could you detail your experience with any of these firms (with pics, tailor etc so we may judge).

hymo, if you're seeing this, please reply to my earlier post. Thanks

 

[GBR]

Originally Posted by hymo

Picked up my Ah Loke suit #2 today. The fabric is from WWChan. Silk haboutai lining. Horn buttons.



Chan presumably acts as a cloth merchant - it is itself an HK-based tailor of some repute. It is not a manufacturer.

 

[GBR]

Originally Posted by hymo

No, no fresh leads on the full canvassing yet.

The lining looks dreadfully cheap and nasty - not in tune with the rest of the garment at all.

 

[Maccimus]

Originally Posted by apropos

Yes, that is an accurate paraphrasal.

I would like to add that tailors who by nature cater mostly to customers with suspect taste in tailored clothing (i.e. Asia - both locals and foreigners looking for cheap suits) are hardly reliable when it comes to making good looking garments.

Chan is hardly a 'cheap Asian tailor', and surprise surprises - they have a tailoring tradition - so my original statement still stands.

My original post was in reference to those cheap and cheerful tailors like Ah Loke, Iris, et al that you have to cajole, push and micromanage in order to get a passable result that even then isn't much better than decent fitting RTW, as the results on this thread, my own personal experience, and that of friends who have been burned attest.

Some would try and drag this into some racial quagmire, but like I pointed out - how the hell are they (cheap Asian tailors) expected to be good when they lack the training, the motivation, the environment and the demand for that?

Not sure where you are going with the white tailor in developed country comment since I mentioned specifically that a proper tailor, white or otherwise, is what you should be looking for in my original comment.

And what is a proper tailor? One who can teach you something, not the other way around.
Not everyone is pursuing perfectness. It is meaningless for people who just want passable suits to go to expensive white tailors.

I guess you live in Asia so you must understand how difficult for Asian people to find OK-fit OTR suits. It is like all suits are produced for White--long sleeves, broad shoulders, etc. Those cheap Asian MTM tailors may charge only $400 (200 for labor, 200 for mid-tier English fabrics) or even less for for a half-canvassed suit. In the worst case you end up with sth just look like an OTR. But an OTR in similar fabrics simply costs more than $500 ($800 if half-canvassed) in my country.

 

[wiimii]

...

 

[Svenn]

I agree with apropos, except for the part about Chan- they're still far below the standards of better Western tailors and I'll never get another suit made by them.

While it's true in a general sense that clients should not instruct their professionals, it is not absolute nor is the tailor's knowledge so obscure and lofty that no client could ever be expected to understand it. hymo and others on this forum have undoubtedly studied endless hours about the craft... even if they lack the technical skill to execute it, that doesn't mean their input is irrelevant.

 

[TheTukker]

Originally Posted by Stylistix

Hi there dont mean to rain on your parade, but the the jacket seems to have 'folds' on the upper sleeve behind the armsyce (3rd picture from top). Is that standard of Ah Loke Tailor?

Contrast with this DB by Graham Browne on Permanent Style

Actually, SC's upper sleeve is not that clean in the back either.

 

[TheTukker]

Originally Posted by apropos

There are 2 major differences between the cheap-Asian & expensive-elsewhere tailors - pride in their work & simple honesty.

There is simply too often no pride in the final product which translates into shoddy workmanship, a lack of concern for the customer, and silly avoidable mistakes. Simple honesty is lacking in the sense that if mistakes are made, they will be hidden (or otherwise not communicated to the customer) or shortcuts in material/workmanship which benefit only the tailor will be taken. Work is almost always outsourced to external workshops or home sewers and the potential for miscommunication is high.

There is sometimes a propensity to go for quick minimal-effort small-time financial gain in Asia/China - and it shows in the tailoring. This advice is all from personal experience. In a nutshell - go to a proper (white or otherwise) tailor.

Originally Posted by apropos

It is the intellectually lazy path to categorise whatever you disagree with as 'racist'....

In addition to my experience, hymo has also gone through here how hard he has had to push for certain details to be done his way, so it's clearly not limited to me. Others here, including PG have migrated from Asian tailor to Asian tailor, and at present PG is actually trying out Aussie-based MTM, which IMO says a lot.

I have seen nonsense from you before, but nothing like this before. I am not sure why you think you can make these broad general statements - with at least racist implications - based on your, from what I have seen, limited 'Asian' experience..

And just to put it back to you: it's very "intellectually lazy" - although I am not even sure what that means - to make such statements without propely backing them up. Referencing this thread, your 'experience' (without elaborating) and PG's recent shift to PJ (although you may have noticed that he recently also moved to another HK-based, Asian, shirtmaker) does not even come close to backing this up.