1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Made in Italy, by Chinese workers

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by watchcollector2454, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. Stugotes

    Stugotes Senior member

    Messages:
    758
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    A problem evident in Europe as well. I really see an increasing interest in locally made goods, though. I hope our economies will find their way back to those business models in the future.
     
  2. AmericanGent

    AmericanGent Senior member

    Messages:
    667
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Florida, unfortunately
    Presently living in Europe and before this I lived in Japan. I can tell you Americans are the worst offenders, but I believe that people are starting to wake up. I see a movement in the US back toward local, responsibly made foods and products. Most evident in cities like Portland and Seattle.

    For instance- I bought a coffee maker by the American brand KitchenAid for $100. The little electric brain died after about 18 months and the coffee maker was ruined- had to throw it out. So, I wasted money on a shitty Made in China American product because of its established brand name. On the other hand, my mother still has the same iron she received as a wedding present in 1966. Not just that, she has the same blender, roaster oven, hand mixer and electric carving knife- all being used for almost 50 years, which is how these name brands earned their reputation.

    Out-sourcing labor to factories that are not invested in the company they work for is a recipe for disaster. I really hope that people outgrow this trend.
     
  3. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Wwt
    e

    Your guess is wrong. I don't use a translation machine. I cannot think in your place. If you experience what I say as mechanical and verbose, I'd recommend you to ask yourself why.
    The situation of exploitation needs at least publicity of the conditions under which these workers live, so consumers know what they support when they buy articles made in these conditions. Perhaps such publicity might seem to you verbosity.
    PS: Similar to publicity of the conditions on the farm and kitchen as places where what one eats originates. In the case of what is "thought" is concerned, the battle to influence and control thought is more complicated.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  4. JubeiSpiegel

    JubeiSpiegel Senior member

    Messages:
    5,382
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Location:
    Sartorial Wasteland
    Based on the book I mentioned, it paints a grim story of counterfeit luxury items. Stories of slavery, child abuse, and crime/ terrorist financing. I know plenty of people don't care, as long as something is dirt cheap, and has the right badge on it. For me, counterfeits are a four letter word...

    As far as legitimate "luxury" manufacturing. My understanding is that not all factories in China are horrible places to work, and some pay decent wages (based on skill and experience of course). Different factories have different grades of skill and quality, so the luxury brands that outsource there are getting a decent manufactured product. Albeit, still sold to us at a 1,000% mark up.

    Some interesting facts from the book:
    Most of a luxury brands money is made on hand bags and accessories (clothing runs are usually a loss).

    The Japanese account for 50% of all luxury items sold every year (might be the Chinese now).

    In any case, something's I wanted to contribute to this thread, food for thought.
     
  5. tim the baotman

    tim the baotman Member

    Messages:
    14
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    Quote:i completely agree. there is a "movement" to buy local / American, i see that too, but i think that is in part do to that international manufacturing is slowly becoming expensive.
     
  6. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    

    Accessorie includes pocket squares (pochettes). How am I to discover under what conditions a pocket square is made? Or how am I to know how an employer treats his workers?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  7. papa kot

    papa kot Senior member

    Messages:
    340
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Sweatshops have been existing in the United States for a long time, but you are not exposed to them very often. This subject is taboo just like its sister-topic -- undocumented immigrants who clean our gardens and perform farming jobs at rock bottom prices.

    In the ideal world, I would not care about the origin of a product as sometimes you simply cannot get local alternatives. What I really want is to ensure that my money goes to hard working people who create great products or services.
     
  8. London

    London Senior member

    Messages:
    1,350
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    There are plenty of sweat shops in the US. I've seen some in the garment district in NYC.
     
  9. Farhad19620

    Farhad19620 Senior member

    Messages:
    1,109
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Location:
    UK
    


    Excellent post, thank you +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++The saying goes “buy cheap, buy twice” – and how true it is. In fact, if you don’t buy quality you could end up spending much more in the long-run.
     
  10. AmericanGent

    AmericanGent Senior member

    Messages:
    667
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Florida, unfortunately

    Ask my self why? Because your syntax is unusual.
     
  11. subdivide

    subdivide Senior member

    Messages:
    170
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Location:
    shanghai
    When you guys finish with your verbose diatribes about your respective levels of privilege and awareness of handmade quality in leather goods, I recommend reading a bit of David Harvey. He's about the most famous geographer out there, and a master of Marx. Read up on capitalism and the inevitable, episodic crises that occur and lead to restless capital seeking out new markets, new resources, and new labor. The spatial fix is a real bitch too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  12. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Dear AmericanGent,

    You are doubly arrogant - you pretend to speak on my behalf although unasked whilst you aid his slanderous diversion from his lack of concentration.

    dear subdivide,

    Who am I to criticize the intellectual accomplishments of a Harvey on circulation, obviously a very hard working member of the faculty. Nevertheless, as Neo- Marxist, a materialist prejudiced and unscientific in regard to the spiritual side of the human being. Like any other of his species, he has achieved partial insight into injustice and exploitation. Fame and master of Marx, I doubt that this Harvey is known beyond librarians and his own sect, the master of the serf is serf according to the master, these are your criteria for truth? In view of culturalgeography, your master would be ignored as too egghead where empirical materialism is true religion - remember, unconscious nominalism hears only words.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  13. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

    Messages:
    7,594
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    

    Could it be that your KitchenAid coffee maker broke not because Chinese people lack pride in their work, but because companies deliberately choose countries with low labor costs in order to manufacture poorly made, cheap things? That is, it's poorly made by design?

    China has some pretty leading engineering right now. I'm sure they could make a decent coffee maker if a company was willing to pay for its production.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  14. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

    Messages:
    7,594
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    

    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. AmericanGent

    AmericanGent Senior member

    Messages:
    667
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Florida, unfortunately
    

    Yes, absolutely. I actually wrote more about this but erased to keep my post shorter.
     
  16. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Dear dieworkwear,

    Your attached video doesn't answer either question I asked about how my trousers were made or the pocket squares I could possibly afford. You sent me a filmed parody about the origin of chicken in which the waitress tries to answer when questioned by two guests in a restaurant (Gilt Club, but according to Internet, new boss and lots of meat, meat, and more meat on the menu - what a Pearllite is, who hangs out there after ten pm? Cocktail heaven - I avoid alcohol, especially those under its influence.) I don't have this problem because I don't eat chicken. In Germany there is controversy about mass production of animals, including chicken, the Swiss take quality of food pretty seriously, too. I don't think your film is funny and I wonder who paid to get it done and how much it cost.
    I hitchhiked from SF to Portland once, where I met a drug addict on a methodon programm and two friendly sisters who invited me to their family's ranchhouse outside the city. I imagine all of them today are very serious about the kind of food they eat. One of the girls seems to be connected with a kind of kindergarten for preschool age children.
    PS: What appears as Gilt Club on Internet doesn't fit the organic claim ridiculed in this superficial and manipulative propaganda posing as amusement. It really is fiction intended to keep people stupid and unhealthy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  17. Trompe le Monde

    Trompe le Monde Senior member

    Messages:
    2,004
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    

    do we have any proof saddleback is run and operated ethically?

    this is the same company that came and blatantly and shamelessly shilled on this forum, until they were called out on it, against which they vehemently denied, until finally admitting that it was a "relative" of the owner that did the shilling, "unbeknownst" to the owner himself...... :paranoia:
     
  18. AmericanGent

    AmericanGent Senior member

    Messages:
    667
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Florida, unfortunately
    Very funny. I lived in Seattle for over 6 years so this is right on. Don't feed em.

    Proof- no. All of the articles and news pieces I have seen say yes, and I have seen nothing to indicate that it is not true. I don't know about shilling on the forum- I see that they are vendors but I have not dug through the old posts. I did read that the owner's brother does all of the social media and forums, but that's all I have heard on the subject.

    EDIT: spoiler added
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  19. Trompe le Monde

    Trompe le Monde Senior member

    Messages:
    2,004
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    

    it blew up here and earlier in that thread
    http://www.styleforum.net/t/145269/saddleback-v-m-w-traveler/100_100#post_2586087

    but the smoking guns (plural) of course predates that thread. all of which were redacted, deleted, or archived. (ive been here years before registration date).

    i find it distasteful the self-styled presentation of their company as blue-collar "gee golly its just me, me dog, and me brother dave". you're selling 600$ bags out of the poorest and lowest-earning country in the OECD. get over the pretense. this disingenuity reeks from every post and article of theirs.
     
  20. dibadiba

    dibadiba Senior member

    Messages:
    706
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Location:
    victoria BC
    

    Yes. An excellent read, and one of the many reasons I'm outspoken against "handmade" goods that aren't hand-made at all.



    Don't forget me. The ideal you talk about does exist, but you're right in regards to the fact that you will no longer find it in big brands. That doesn't stop them from trying, though. Simply infuriating to me.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by