1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Made in Italy, by Chinese workers

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by watchcollector2454, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. lee_44106

    lee_44106 Senior member

    Messages:
    8,106
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Location:
    the Zoo
    That would explain the quality decline in some of the "Made in Italy" products.
     
  2. AmericanGent

    AmericanGent Senior member

    Messages:
    667
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Florida, unfortunately
    Sadly, this has been going on for quite some time- maybe 15-20 years. I don't know for sure, but these brands were once family owned companies and they were gobbled up in the 1980s. The truth is, hand labor is crushingly expensive- which we understand and willingly pay for. And it's not just Italian brands like Prada, Gucci etc., but also LV and Hermes...and down the list. These brands play up the image of an artisan lovingly making your shoes by hand, but sadly it is no longer the case. You are paying for a dream.

    Also of concern is the fact that goods are made in China, then finished in Italy in order to legally have the "Made in Italy" tag.



    This is why I am for the most part in a "post brand name" stage of buying. I'll spend too much money on local Neapolitan brands (while I am still living here) but never again will I spend money on Louis Vuitton, Burberry or any of those other mega-brands. I do not desire low production cost, high-profit items wrapped in logos that have been made by people in near slavery conditions. I'd rather have leather goods made by a small company - I will list some below. These things are much finer to my eye than a luxury label. I never get complements on my LV wallet or Burberry accessories, but my Saddleback stuff gets tons of questions.

    http://www.hardgraft.com/

    http://www.kentonsorenson.com/collections/store

    http://www.tannergoods.com/ - (heard that customer service has been suffering lately- maybe got too big to quick?)

    http://www.saddlebackleather.com/ - (made in Mexico by skilled leather workers who are paid and treated well.)

    EDIT: spelling
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
    2 people like this.
  3. AmericanGent

    AmericanGent Senior member

    Messages:
    667
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Florida, unfortunately
    In the interest of full disclosure- I just bought my wife some shoes from Christian Louboutin. Oops....

    But it's what she wanted so...Merry Christmas hunny.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. MikeDT

    MikeDT Senior member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Location:
    China, Mongolia and UK
    Whether stuff is made in Guangzhou or Prato, doesn't make much difference really?

    :lurk:
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  5. papa kot

    papa kot Senior member

    Messages:
    340
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    I am glad I never caught the "mass produced luxury bug." Supporting small, local businesses without big marketing departments is the way to go.
     
  6. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    

    Dear MikeDT,

    I don't understand your question in this context.
    Your question concerns the difference between two places on Earth as place of manufacture.

    The topic here is more complex. If you inspect the photos made by the Italian journalist, you see the workers work and live under certain conditions. Do you work under similar conditions where you are?

    If I purchase trousers made in Italy sold by New & Lingwood, or pochettes made in Italy offered for sale by duchamp, how can I know or ascertain under what conditions these articles have been made?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  7. mr monty

    mr monty Senior member

    Messages:
    6,795
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    Location:
    Naptown (Indianapolis)
    Made in America by Mexican workers

    :lurk:
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    


    Dear Mr Monty,

    Your formulation is insufficient. I bought a Filson rucksack made in Seattle and Bill's Driving Twill trousers of imported cloth - Bill said German, but refused to say who in Germany - made in Pennsylvania, but under what for work condition I don't know. I suppose there must be NGO organizations that know this?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  9. MikeDT

    MikeDT Senior member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Location:
    China, Mongolia and UK
    

    You mean the parts about working 14 hours a day, sleeping in the factory, squalid conditions, improper or no documentation, evading taxes, smuggling, criminal gangs, etc. Yeh that sounds very much the same as where I am. Myself, I don't work under those conditions, but many do.

    I just don't buy stuff from big name designer brands, period.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  10. JubeiSpiegel

    JubeiSpiegel Senior member

    Messages:
    5,382
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Location:
    Sartorial Wasteland
    :lurk:

    Anyone read "Deluxe: How Luxury Lost it's Luster"? Good stuff..,
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
    2 people like this.
  11. zippyh

    zippyh Senior member

    Messages:
    6,370
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Location:
    Seattle-ish
    Speaking of Filson workers...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    

    Dear Zippyh,

    I didn't speak of Filson workers, I said I have not investigated the working conditions of those persons who made my Filson rucksack. So your theme is your own, not mine, and your photograph collection of Asian women at work on or displaying various Filson articles shows no relevance for my theme, unless you explain that these persons work in Seattle. Filson states that their rucksacks are made in Seattle, just as Filson declares many articles imported. I read that Washington legalized cannabis, and I have heard Paracelsus said the question is quantity of dosage. Cannabis in over dosage is not recommended for persons who must think, for example, calculate their income tax.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  13. zippyh

    zippyh Senior member

    Messages:
    6,370
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Location:
    Seattle-ish
    Dear Naïve, Jr,

    I have no idea wtf you are babbling about whenever you post. I assume that English is not your first language however I doubt that is the primary cause of your babbling.

    Filson employs many Asian people in their Seattle factory.
    The pictures are from an article in the Seattle Times several years ago.
     
  14. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    
    Yes, I mean what the thread initiator posted, and it was not correctly represented by your reduction. Now you have decided to show you get the point by including the decisive content. But if you feel I misrepresent the intention of the thread initiator, you can ask him if I'm just interpreting too much into his problem. The Italian journalist took the trouble to have the social circumstances of these Chinese photographed. From what you write about your own situation, you sound quite privileged. You don't have to work under the conditions in which you assert to know many others do. They most likely don't have enough money to buy stuff from the big name brands. Language when written in indicative mood includes punctuation , but some sentences are in imperative or even in interrogative mood, requiring other signs of punctuation. For example: What is just?
     
  15. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    

    You do seem to get the point of my babbling, although you are so concerned and confused by my inadequate articulation you overlook your own failure to clarify if the Filson employees in Seattle work in similar conditions to the Chinese photographed above. Some people have to work very hard, other need to work hard just to think clearly.
     
  16. Naive Jr.

    Naive Jr. Senior member

    Messages:
    578
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    T

    Thank you very much for taking the trouble to bring this literature to my attention. I am impressed to hear somebody contribute in a manner which seems to do justice to the thread's theme of inhumanity exploiting humanity. Since I am often accused - here and on that Filson fan club thread - of not writing proper English and lack of virtue enabling respectful exchange, I want to check if those clothes I buy are made in subhuman exploitation. But I have the impression those posters who complain about my babbling must be far removed from any injustice.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  17. dapperdoctor

    dapperdoctor Senior member

    Messages:
    479
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The common theme with the majority of big name brands is that they do indeed use the cheapest labor they can find. This allows them to spend more money on advertising, which is what brings in the profit by leading to mass sales. People are into brand names. Once they deem a particular brand name "cool", they buy it and really don't pay attention to who makes it. It's all smoke and mirrors for a lot of companies it seems. We live in an age where BS is the norm.
     
  18. Thearkly

    Thearkly Senior member

    Messages:
    166
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Location:
    Baja
    n.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  19. AmericanGent

    AmericanGent Senior member

    Messages:
    667
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    Florida, unfortunately
    The babbling thing may be from a overly verbose translation engine- just my guess.

    The issue that I have is not whether something is made in a particular country- it is whether the item is made by underpaid "slave" labor. Items made in USA, Japan, Germany, Italy, etc. by local nationals are generally made with more pride and attention to detail. The worker has a vested interest in the success of the company. Subsequently, when a worker makes a living wage he/she will have expendable income to shop, go on vacation, etc. This reinvests those dollars back into the economy and creates tax revenue.....etc., etc. and so forth.

    In regard to American businesses like Bill's, Allen Edmonds and others that still manufacture their goods in America- you are going to have to pay a much higher retail price for these items to offset the labor costs. Sadly, most companies have moved their factories overseas because Americans have voted with their wallets. Americans have insisted on buying their stuff at prices only slave labor can provide.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by