Made in China is now high end?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Pantisocrat, Nov 28, 2011.

  1. MikeDT

    MikeDT Senior member

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    Yeh, and some absolutely shite clothes are also made in China, far worse than one will ever see from Europe or North America. A country of great contrasts.
     


  2. Verniza

    Verniza Senior member

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    Agreed on every level. Many mainland chinese people have no morals or principles, they'd do anything for a quick buck.

    Many of them work under you, steal your technology/recipes/whatever before taking your money and setting up exact replicas. I know a few people who were victims, for that little bit of cheap labor cost them to lose majority of their workers and face direct competition by their ex-workers.

    One of whom had even passed away due to stress, all his china workers(which is majority of his employees) left and opened up an exact replica of his business model and product. He couldn't find immediate replacements, got a heart attack and passed on.

    Of course he is stupid and is to be blamed for hiring so many Chinese workers but still, doesn't hide the fact that many China chinese people are.... _______.
     


  3. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    70% of my company's current revenue is generated by our services sold in China. We have found business practices to be ruthless and dishonorable in general in mainland China. As consultants with nothing to sell but our professional services you can imagine how hard it might be to collect payment for services rendered. We now will only work when we are paid in advance of our work. This is completely contrary to Chinese thinking and we lose a lot of potential projects because of our policy. But it is the only way to go in general.

    Conversely we have developed long term and very stable relationships with a few older and more established companies in China. These people, who have been doing business around the world for 20 years or more, are quite sophisticated, honost, and understand the subtle nuances of quality work and workmanship.

    As China further enters the world stage they are in for some serious social unrest. Once the general population becomes more and more exposed to democracy they will not be able to be suppressed as easily. China is 'riding high' at the moment, and probably will for a good while to come. But it's not going to be an easy ride without some serious bumps in the road.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011


  4. bourbonbasted

    bourbonbasted Cyber Eliitist

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    My father's company does business with a lot of foreign governments and NPOs. He has tried many times to break into China but their government insists that if he is to sell in China he would need a state-approved representative to sell his product (basically someone's brother-in-law who would skim x% off the top of each sale). Furthermore, he would also have to set up manufacturing in China for all the units he sells to Chinese clients. You have to make in China to sell in China.

    Off the record one of my father's Chinese "consultants" said the government was already beginning to set up a company to sell my father's products once he was in place and they could learn the technology. Luckily he was able to pull out of the deal before anything like that happened. FWIW, a nearly identical scenario played out in India.

    Shame too, a lot of people could have been helped/benefited from his product.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011


  5. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    If you make it in China you will definitely be copied and ripped off. You are essentially 'giving away the store'.

    We won't even let our clients have our Autocad drawings. PDF copies only.
     


  6. entrero

    entrero Senior member

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    I watched the Li Ka Shing docu, he mentioned how his startup company flourished because of trust and building a stable relationship with foreign investors. Well known secret still relevant today.

    Chinese economy runs on blood and that won't last forever. I like when people mention democracy, because then I ask them "What do you define as democracy?" Is it the Western democracy, the neo-colonialism type with a puppet state hiding under the mantle of democracy? or democracy in it's purest form?

    I'd rather see a short term extreme form of government working for a better future, rather than a protracted rape similar to what happened to Africa and southern americas.
     


  7. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    Wait, WTF? :eh:
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011


  8. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    As I understand the mindset it is something along the lines of nearly absolute 'loyalty and honor' between all members of an 'inside circle' of a business relationship. Compounded with ruthlessness to all others.

    This was once explained to me as being a reflection of Confucian philosphy which puts an exceeding high value on honor and duty within family units, even at the expense of other family units. This carries over into business.

    This is just one train of thought and I'm certain it's an over simplification. But I think a valid thing to understand when doing business in China.
     


  9. bellyhungry

    bellyhungry Senior member

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    Here in the western world, we are so honorable and professional that we will never experience any crisis like they would in China.
    We can also count on the banks, the government, and the regulatory institutions to do the right thing and be lawful.
     


  10. BostonHedonist

    BostonHedonist Senior member

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    On this subject I've done a little reading. My understanding is that outsourcing production to China can work very well if your company is able to afford to buy out, train and manage an entire shop or wing of a manufacturing house. This ensures that the company's desired level of quality can be attained. If, however, your company is only at the scale to sign a contract with a third party manufacturer in China where you send over designs, and are shipped back a product - with little or no oversight - you will likely be riddled with defects, shabby construction and material losses. The Chinese are excellent cost-cutters and, left to their own designs, will take every shortcut available (of course there are always exceptions).

    China is for the big dogs, like Apple. My general purchasing philosophy is, if it's a long-standing, respected brand with large revenues and low tolerance for defects, I will be more okay with its products being made in China. In clothing, I think a good gauge of this is who sells stuff to outlet stores and what they sell there. Often times outlets get a lot of "seconds" that, I believe, come from flawed manufacturing practices. Brands like Nike, Addidas, Tommy Hilfigger etc. There are exceptions. For instance, pay attention to what is in the outlets because it is simply out of season or overstocked (as Timberland and Clarks make some respectable products but are often sold in outlets).

    So my rule of thumb is, if it's in an outlet store, a recent product, made in China and has some visible flaw, the brand itself goes on my shit list.
     


  11. Maccimus

    Maccimus Senior member

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    Confucian also tells us to keep our words and to be loyal to our friends and associates. It is nothing different to western moral principles. But Confucian system was unfortunately destructed after you know who took the country.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011


  12. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    :crackup:
     


  13. iroh

    iroh Senior member

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    Cause we all know only the English can make good shoes:


    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]


    I am being sarcastic...
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011


  14. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    When we purchase large quantities of furniture from China (hotels) we hire an independant inspector who is implanted at the factory and inspects every single item before it is packed and shipped. Once it leaves the factory you own it and have little recourse regarding quality control.
     


  15. max b

    max b Senior member

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    I suppose the problem it is also that Chinese Companies are looking for big numbers and since high quality goods market is of course smaller compared to the mass distribution business, they just don't care about it. Not because they are not able to enter it, but just because it is not generating the profit they are looking for...Am I wrong ?
     


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