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Loro Piana Tasmanian Super 130s - any thoughts?

epa

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Yesterday I visited my tailor, thinking about ordering a new summer suit. I am looking for something "basic" and quite "formal", to bring with me as the only suit on, for example, a one-week business trip, useful for business meetings during the day and dinner with clients in the evening.
I was thinking in navy.
My tailor showed me a very nice cloth, navy and featuring some small squares, like some kind of extremely subtle Prince-of-Wales, but looking quite solid even at a fairly small distance. That is, solid but not really solid.
The cloth was by Loro Piana, 100% wool, seemed to be very fine. It was called something like "Tasmanian Super130s" (Loro Piana ref. 390011, 250 gr.). (Quite expensive for my standards, by the way).
My concern is: maybe this cloth is so fine that it will wear out soon? I intend this suit to be used frequently, to be the "basic" business suit in my wardrobe, that is, to be used at least once a week and, sometimes, when travelling, on a daily basis.
What do you think?
(I also saw another nice cloth by Loro Piana, also "Tasmanian" wool but with 10% silk; my tailer advised me not to go for it, as it would be less resistent and/or more prone to wrinkle, I don't remember which)
(By the way, as I raised the issue of "resistance", he said that he had some cloths that included poly**ter, but I refused to consider them in fear of being banned from SF)
 

Sator

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The main piece of information that is missing to make a proper assessment of the cloth is the weight of the cloth. I assume that your tailor showed you summer weighted fabrics ie 250 - 300 gram weight?

The other thing that troubles me a little is the fact it is S130. Supers mean it will feel soft but are more delicate - not to mention more expensive. The end result is a fabric that purists here decry as being like tissue paper.

Light supers really drape rather poorly. They wrinkle like linen and fail to hold a crease. They end up producing what I call pyjama suits. Some (like Manton) refuse to touch anything that is a super but that is really being puritanical. I see nothing wrong with S100.

I too live in a climate which is famous for being warm and need to have summer suitings in my rotation. The best way to go about it is to look for frescoe weaves which are heavier eg 300 - 400 gram but breath better because of the open weave. It is the ability of the fabric to breath that makes it cooler to wear. Classics for this purpose include mohair-wool blends.

You will also find that few of the purists around here will favour Loro Piana as a maker. The Italians have a reputation for making beautiful looking but rather tissue papery supers. Of all makers H. Lessers has the greatest following. Lessers have a book with some nice frescoe weaves in it that you would do well to get hold of with the help of your tailor.

Lastly, although I am being a bit of a traditionalist, I regard a Prince of Wales check as being something of a more casual style of suiting rather than a more 'formal' one. This is however more of a traditional English dress rule and people in Latin countries have a more relaxed attitude to such things.
 

epa

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Thanks. The weight was 250 gr.
The checks don't bother me too much, I am not in a "superconservative" envorinment. However, I am concerned about paying a lot for something that may not be worth it, really.
Thanks for the suggestions, I hope this will help me in the right direction.
 

Sator

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Originally Posted by epa
The weight was 250 gr.
eek.gif
This is just expensive tissue paper! Super tissue paper at that. If your tailor doesn't stock H. Lesser they will send out books to him so you can look at them: http://hlesser.co.uk/ Every firm worth its salt on Saville Row is well stocked up on their books and any good tailor anywhere should do likewise.
 

epa

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Thanks again, Sator.
As far as I understand, this means that I should stay away from "Supers" or, at least, from Supers higher than Super100.
Also, I should avoid grammages in the order of 250.
I am not sure of how to translate a "frescoe weave" to my tailor, but I'll give it a try.
My tailor is at "El Corte InglÃ
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s" by Sol in Madrid (Spain). That is not exactly Saville Row, and I cannot recall having seen any H. Lesser books there. However, he has Dormeuil and Scabal, they are English too, aren't they? Aren't they supposed to be good?
Would it generally be more recommendable to go for these firms than for Loro Piana or Zegna?
(I am sure that there is a prior thread addressing these "cloth" issues, but I do not know where...)
 

Sator

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I am unsure about Scabal but Dormeil, along with Holland & Sherry don't weave anything of their own. They contract out weaving to mills and then resell their range. H Lesser weave their own. If you look on the London Lounge you will find a lot of discussion on fabrics including pictures of frescoe weaves. Basically you should ask for a heavier weighted open weave. Open is easier to translate than frescoe. There are other types of open weaves which have their own special names. Zegna has a reputation for being fragile. My tailor says Italian for colour and English for durability. However many purists prefer the solidity and superior drape of the English fabrics with H. Lesser being the one with the highest reputation. If you e-mail H. Lesser and ask about their summer suitings they will answer back very promptly. I am sure you could arrange for them to send the relevant books to your tailor. As for supers they are hard to avoid altogether. I will accept up to S130 especially if it is a heavier weighted fabric with some heft to it. Above that I get nervous (although you can get really hefty super S150 and over - but they are astronomically expensive). With weights I get nervous with anything below 300 grams. Combine a weight less substantially less than 300 g with even a modest super number and you are into tissue paper territory. Anyway the London Lounge is a good place for these discussions. I am sure you will get similar opinions to what I have already said. The London Lounge also offer their own limited edition fabrics (no supers!) if you join in.
 

Petyot

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You could find some helpfull information in that article...

Menswear: what's inside your suit?
Monday, November 13, 2006
By Ray A. Smith, The Wall Street Journal

The men's floor at Barneys New York has racks of suits in a wide range of prices, colors and cuts. But many have one thing in common: The now-ubiquitous labels that promote the quality of the fabric with numbers like "Super 110s" and "Super 150s."
Just as sheets trumpet thread counts and gas has its premium octane, suit manufacturers are using these numbers to tout their wool. Higher numbers translate to narrower fibers, which makers say are softer to the touch. It's one of several tactics the suit industry is using to combat slowing sales. On the high end, makers are pushing suits in the Super 220s range for thousands of dollars. Discounters are also adopting the system, hoping to convince shoppers that a superior suit can be had for $300 or less.
Industry groups and some lawmakers are now calling these numbers into question, prompted in part by makers of superfine wool fabrics concerned about lower-priced suits being labeled with high Super numbers. But the issue isn't limited to inexpensive suits.
In a test of 10 suits by The Wall Street Journal, ranging in price from $290 to $1,995, four came back with a Super grade below what was advertised. We also tested for durability and wrinkle-resistance, and found that some suits with higher Super numbers didn't deliver superior performance on those measures. A $1,595 Corneliani suit purchased at Saks Fifth Avenue, for instance, was labeled as Super 170s. Our lab test showed the fabric was actually Super 150s.
Roger Cohen, president of the U.S. division of Corneliani, says the company uses an Italian lab to conduct random tests on the fabric received from suppliers, which provide certificates noting the diameter of the fiber. Its policy, he adds, is not to "mislead or misguide any consumer."
Though there's no way for shoppers to verify a suit's Super number without access to a textile laboratory, there are a few simple tests shoppers can perform themselves in stores to gauge the quality of a suit. One trick to figure out how easily a suit will wrinkle: Clench a sleeve in your fist for a few minutes, then let it go -- a good quality fabric should rebound quickly. Rayon linings known as Bemberg are generally more durable than silk or other materials, while twills, like Herringbone, tend to be stronger materials than plain weaves.
The boom in S-numbers is part of a broader move by suit makers to set their garments apart from the competition. Sales have cooled from the torrid pace of a couple of years ago, when men started dressing up again and the casual style of the dot-com era went out of vogue. Through September this year, sales are down 10 percent from the same period a year earlier, according to market researcher NPD Group. Last year, sales rose only 0.4 percent, NPD says.
The fastest-growing category in the U.S. market is suits under $300, which now account for more than half of all suits purchased. These include imports from China, Mexico and other countries that have improved their quality, helping to push down prices overall. The average cost of a suit in 2005 was $138.26, down from $142.32 in 2004, when suit sales rose 18 percent over the previous year. Hartmarx, which owns the Hart Schaffner Marx and Hickey Freeman labels, is among the biggest suit makers in the U.S., along with Jos. A. Bank and Brooks Brothers.
Many lower-priced suits now identify S-numbers, too. Men's Wearhouse sells a $399 private-label Pronto Uomo suit marked Super 120s. Others name the fabric mill or the country where a suit was made. Some Arnold Brant suits, for instance, tout their provenance as "Vitale Barberis Canonico," an Italian fabric maker.
Makers say S-numbers are proving the most effective. While women typically look for items that appeal to their sense of style, using their instinct or the opinions of friends, many men have a harder time deciding what to buy. The numbers add a quantitative dimension that makes decision-making less intimidating. There are also bragging rights. S-numbers give men "something to discuss at a cocktail party," says Corneliani's Mr. Cohen.
That was the attraction for Craig Weiss, a 51-year-old psychologist in Holland, Pa., who bought a $3,000 navy blue Brioni suit made of Super 150s wool a few years ago. He says he thought a higher S-number was "a thing to aspire to." But Mr. Weiss says the suit let him down, wrinkling when he traveled more than his less-expensive suits did. It also felt so light and delicate that he worried about it ripping. "It took all the fun out of wearing it," he says, adding that he now wears the suit only for special occasions and buys lower S-numbered suits for everyday use. Brioni says it has not heard any complaints about its Super 150s.
Part of what makes the S-number system confusing is that higher quality wool doesn't also mean more durable wool. The number relates only to the diameter of the fiber, measured in microns. Thinner fibers are usually more fragile. These suits tend to bunch up when tailored and can wear out after a few dry cleanings.
"A very high S-system number doesn't guarantee the best garments," says Andy Gilchrist, author of "The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes." "Such wools wrinkle almost as much as linen. They are delicate and not as durable as less-fine wool."
The fineness of the fabric is only one measure of a suit's quality. Strength is also a factor, and depends on the length of the yarn and whether it's reinforced with another strand to make it two ply. In some cloth, only yarn that runs vertically is reinforced, while in others, reinforced yarns run horizontally as well. The latter, called "two by two," tends to be stronger and better at recovering from wrinkles. Ply is rarely noted on a label, but is sometimes mentioned in descriptions of products on the fabric maker's Web site.
Suit makers acknowledge that fabrics with high S-numbers are delicate and lightweight. But some say that a suit made of high-quality Super 150s or above could be worn to the office once a week and would last four or five years, if it's rarely dry cleaned. That's roughly half as long as a good-quality Super 120s suit under the same conditions. Several salespeople at stores from Saks Fifth Avenue to Barneys New York advised us not to buy suits with high S-numbers for anything but special occasions.
To determine the accuracy of advertised S-numbers, we purchased 10 suits at retail outlets and sent them to Vartest Laboratories, a New York firm that tests fibers and fabrics for retailers and manufacturers. One suit made by Italian label Canali, priced at $1,800, came back with results indicating that the S-number was overstated. The lab also measured the fibers in a $417 Donald J. Trump suit labeled Super 150s, and found them to be the diameter of Super 130s -- the same grade it found in a Lauren by Ralph Lauren suit we bought on Macys.com that was described online as a Super 140s.
A spokeswoman from Canali says its fabric was tested by an Italian lab and determined to be Super 150s. Peerless Clothing, which manufactures the Lauren suit, says the description applied to a previous version of the suit and should have been changed on the Web site (the site has since been updated). A lawyer for Marcraft Apparel Group, which makes suits under the Donald J. Trump label, says our test was "inappropriate" because it is not possible to determine wool quality from a finished product. Other industry executives said testing finished goods is not unusual and is often used to check quality.
Six of the suits we tested passed with flying colors, with results that matched or exceeded their promised S-numbers, including two of our least expensive choices -- an Arnold Brant and a Jos. A. Bank, both Super 110s that cost less than $300. A pricier Hickey Freeman Super 120s was found to have Super 130s fibers. Hickey Freeman declined to comment.
Our overall winner in the other two categories -- strength and wrinkle-resistance -- was that $300 Arnold Brant suit, which we found marked down from $895 at Sierra Trading Post. Its warp, or vertical yarns, withstood nearly 83 pounds of pressure before ripping -- that's about 40 pounds more than the industry's minimum standard. We also tested the weft of all our suits, or horizontal yarns, since some fabric makers reinforce only the warp; experts say a suit that has a strong warp and weft will last longer.
The first Super 100s wool was developed in the 1960s, by an English fabric mill that worked with yarn from sheep bred especially for that purpose in Australia. It was far silkier than anything available at the time.
The first merchants to see it "were so astounded that, in a fit of exuberance, they dubbed it Super 100s," according to the book "The Suit: A Machiavellian Approach to Men's Style," written by Michael Anton under the pen name Nicholas Antongiavanni. Italian mills soon developed looms that could rapidly weave the fine wool without tearing it.
For years, the terminology was used mostly by fabric and suit makers. By the mid-1990s, as competition was heating up in the U.S. suit market and luxury labels were taking off, high-end clothiers, custom-suit makers and Italian mills began using Super numbers more often to market directly to consumers. Soon, the numbers began appearing on labels inside suits or on the sleeves. Sales people in department stores started receiving training on how to explain why the super wools cost more.
"The label says 'this is special,' 'this is unique,'" says Arnold Brant, president of the clothing company that bears his name. "If it's a navy suit and it says Super 120s, it tells the customer this is a wool that's a better grade. This is not a typical navy suit."
In part because of the profusion of S-numbers across all price levels, the Cashmere and Camel Hair Manufacturers Institute decided to test the veracity of these claims. The Boston-based trade group that includes makers of superfine wool fabrics started testing finished products two years ago, at the urging of some of its members who noticed lower-priced suits were increasingly being labeled with high S-numbers.
In its test of 20 suits, the institute found that roughly two-thirds of them were mislabeled, including suits purchased from Men's Wearhouse, Filene's (now part of Macy's) and Sierra Trading Post. The group then notified the stores and manufacturers, which either stopped selling the suits or changed the labels.
There is no universal standard for defining S-numbers. The International Wool Textile Organisation, a trade group, has issued guidelines, but suit makers say mills in some countries don't follow them. In our test, we used those guidelines.
At the urging of several trade groups, the U.S. House of Representatives in September approved a bill that would codify the IWTO's guidelines, setting specific measurements for S-numbers up to Super 250s. The bill would give the Federal Trade Commission the power to fine fabric suppliers, garment manufacturers and retailers that don't abide by the standards.
The proposed legislation would "give our industry protection" and "help the consumer so that they are going to get what's advertised," says Hickey Freeman chairman Duffy Hickey, who is also president of the Tailored Clothing Association, a suit makers' trade group.
Some suit makers think S-numbers have been overdone. Oxxford Clothes, whose handmade suits are sold for thousands of dollars at stores like Barneys New York and its own shops in Chicago and New York, plans to stop labeling everything below Super 150s, starting next fall. A key reason: "You're seeing very inexpensive suits advertised as Super 120s and that muddies the water," says Mike Cohen, the company's chief executive.
J.C. Penney stopped labeling the Super numbers on its Stafford suits last year because the number "doesn't reflect the entire quality story of our product," says Richard Honiball, Penney's Stafford brand director. The suits are made with many fabrics that qualify for Super designation, up to and including Super 120s, he says.
Others, like Ermenegildo Zegna, an Italian firm that makes fabric as well as suits, don't tout the S-number on their labels either. Djordje Stefanovic, executive director of communications for Zegna, says the company relies on its reputation for making fine fabrics: "As yarn producers, wool producers and suit producers, we didn't want to play that numbers game."
How the Suits Measured Up
We purchased 10 suits by popular makers, testing the fibers' diameter, the durability of the vertical and horizontal yarns, and how quickly they recovered after being wrinkled. Starting from the left, suits are listed from least to most expensive.
Lauren by Ralph Lauren 140s
$289.99 at Macys.com
S-NUMBER TEST: Flunked. Lab found 130s
FABRIC STRENGTH: Exceeded minimum standard for worsted wool, but an average performer in our test.
BOTTOM LINE: At 59 percent off full price, this classic, everyday suit is a good deal, but not if you want the promised 140s. Maker says Macys.com described a previous version of the suit; the Web site has since been updated.
Jos. A. Bank 110s
$299 at Jos. A. Bank
S-NUMBER TEST: Passed.
FABRIC STRENGTH: The vertical yarn, or warp, held up well, but the weft was weaker, withstanding only 46 lbs. of pressure, 20 lbs. less than one of our strongest suits.
BOTTOM LINE: Not especially durable -- it also did the worst on our wrinkle test. Maker says customers who look for S-numbers want a "luxurious hand feel" and are less interested in strength and wrinkle recovery.
Arnold Brant 110s
$299.95 at Sierra Trading Post
S-NUMBER TEST: Extra credit. Lab found 120's
FABRIC STRENGTH: The most durable in our test; withstood nearly 83 lbs. of vertical pressure -- more than twice the industry minimum for worsted wool.
BOTTOM LINE: Great quality suit -- and a great deal at 34 percent off suggested retail price.
Pronto Uomo 120s
$399 at Men's Wearhouse
S-NUMBER TEST: Passed
FABRIC STRENGTH: Exceeded lab's minimum standard, but was among the weakest in our tear tests.
BOTTOM LINE: Overall, this private-label suit is a good buy for the money if you're looking for fine wool, though it was a little stiffer than our pricier 120s. Men's Wearhouse had no comment.
Donald J. Trump 150s
$416.50 at Macy's
S-NUMBER TEST: Flunked. Lab found Super 130s
FABRIC STRENGTH: The weakest suit in our test, just barely meeting the minimum standards for horizontal strength, known as weft.
BOTTOM LINE: A lawyer for the maker says our test was "inappropriate" because it isn't possible to determine wool quality from a finished product.
Brooks Brothers 110s
$898 at Brooks Bros. S-NUMBER TEST: Passed
FABRIC STRENGTH: Holding up under 76 lbs. of pressure, this was our second strongest suit.
BOTTOM LINE: Overall, a durable, good quality suit for conservative dressers. Also a good bet for frequent travelers -- it passed our wrinkle test with flying colors, recovering quickly after being compressed for 20 minutes.
Hickey Freeman 120s
$1,195 at Hickey Freeman
SUPER TEST: Extra credit. Lab found 130s.
FABRIC STRENGTH: Strongest in our horizontal test. Fabric withstood nearly 66 lbs. of pressure, 50 percent more than the minimum.
BOTTOM LINE: A durable high-quality suit with a silky feel. Labels also tout "Loro Piana Tasmanian" wool and a durable rayon lining known as Bemberg.
Corneliani 170s
$1,595 at Saks Fifth Avenue
S-NUMBER TEST: Flunked. Lab found Super 150s
FABRIC STRENGTH: Withstood 68 lbs. of pressure, more than some 120s.
BOTTOM LINE: A classic style, but an S-number that didn't deliver in our test. Maker says its suppliers provide a certificate noting fiber diameter, and it also randomly tests fabric at a lab in Italy to ensure quality; its policy isn't to "mislead or misguide any consumer."
Canali 150s
$1,795 at Bloomingdale's
S-NUMBER TEST: Flunked. Lab found Super 140s
FABRIC STRENGTH: Exceeded minimum standards, but didn't do as well as others in our test.
BOTTOM LINE: Though it didn't deliver on its 150s promise in our test, suit has a luxurious feel. Canali says its fabric was tested by an Italian lab and determined to be Super 150s.
Ermenegildo Zegna 120s
$1,995 at Bergdorf Goodman
S-NUMBER TEST: Passed
FABRIC STRENGTH: Though fabric exceeded industry standards, it was among the worst performers in our tests.
BOTTOM LINE: Looks and feels as luxurious as the price would suggest, but not an everyday suit. Company says finer fabrics are more delicate, and its products are intended as luxury items, rather than "workhorse" suits.
Behind the Numbers
We purchased 10 wool suits from popular makers at a wide range of price points and Super numbers. We didn't test any suits above Super 170s, since most of those are only available made to measure or by special order.
In addition to checking Super numbers, we tested two other factors that are important to men shopping for suits: durability and how susceptible the material is to wrinkling.
We had the suits analyzed by Vartest Laboratories in New York, which is accredited by the International Organisation for Standardization in Geneva, Switzerland, and has conducted tests for retailers and manufacturers. To check the suits' Super numbers, the lab measured the diameter of the wool fiber in microns. Vartest said that while there could be differences between measurements of raw wool fibers and those in finished products, they probably wouldn't be large enough to change the Super number
 

Leaveitothexperts

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Originally Posted by Petyot
You could find some helpfull information in that article...

Menswear: what's inside your suit?
Monday, November 13, 2006
By Ray A. Smith, The Wall Street Journal


Good article. I believe this article was posted on SF the day it came out on the WSJ and should still be somewhere among the threads.
 

French Cuff Consignment

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Originally Posted by epa
I intend this suit to be used frequently, to be the "basic" business suit in my wardrobe, that is, to be used at least once a week and, sometimes, when traveling, on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by epa
What do you think?
Kudos to you on getting yourself a custom suit! Salut! You have obviously enjoyed a fair measure of success (or maybe its just good breeding), but just don't let other people rain on your parade. IMO you have earned the right to buy whatever tickles your fancy. Your budget and needs should be your guide. If it’s possible to stretch for two because the fabric of the 130s is so high, do that. You can always add more distinct, more luxurious items down the road when your wardrobe is larger. Check out this article www.frenchcuffconsignment.com/defining_your_personal_style.php#Which%20types%20of%20Suits%20should%20I%20buy? It sounds to me like you are concerned that some of the Super 130's and the like might be too delicate. What exactly do you intend on doing in your suit? Do you have to walk many city blocks in your suit regularly? When you travel by car, train or plane, do you normally take off your jacket (A good idea; it reduces strain on the fabric seams etc). Do you ever have to sleep in your suit? (Like on a plane?) If so you may want to buy a cheaper suit from a consignment store or something, then change into your custom one when you arrive. Is your appearance is key to your earning more money, like a sales man? (lf so, buy something beautiful, but solid so you can dress it up differently.... especially if you have to see your clients often in it) The less often they see you in a suit the better! Familiarity breeds.... I personally own a Loro Piana Tasmanian 120's sport coat from Hickey Freeman that I just love. Every single time I wear it I get compliments. Every single time. (I only get to wear it once every 6 to 8 weeks though) The jacket will wrinkle in the back, and at the elbows, but they just steam right out in 2 minutes, and they are never bad enough to where I feel concerned. (Steam them out, do not iron!) I also have a Brioni 150's suit that I just adore, but the reason I don't wear it every day, isn't because its wrinkles, it’s just a treat, Super Special occasions only. But I have never worried about it tearing. If you do... than get something sturdier, multi-ply. If you aren't going to wear the suit more than 4 or 5 times a month with a relatively sedentary job, I do not think that Super 120's will be an issue. When you travel though, get a hand steamer at the very least, and then hang and brush out your suit as soon as you possibly can each night. And I assure you, every time you wear a suit that boasts a beautiful luster like the Supers do, its like having a beautiful woman on your arm, in fact writhing all over...(Well maybe not quite that good.... ) It will be worth its weight in gold in the confidence you'll have, and who knows it may very well help you earn the money you will need to buy a few more. Invest in yourself! Best wishes
 

Dragon

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I don` think 250gr is too delicate. It`s probably a perfect weight for an all year round suit (at least for me as I prefer lighter weight materials even for the winter).
 

StockwellDay

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I picked up a Hickey Freeman Tasmanian Super 130's suit at the Barney's warehouse sale last year. It's my favorite suit, and the price would make a grown tailor weep. Anyways, it does feel more delicate than my other suits, but I also get the most compliments on it as well.

Go for it!
 

epa

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Thanks a lot for all the input.
I provided this feedback to my tailor, and he said that Loro Piana made nice fabrics and that the Tasmanian Super130s (250g) was an excellent choice and would make a nice suit, not too prone to wrinkle. He also said that LP had a fairly correct price, cheaper than Holland&Sherry, for example. However, all your comments regarding Italian Super130s really had made me doubt, so I asked to see other books. In the end, I was looking at a Holland&Sherry Target one, I think it was something like H&S Summer Target Super 120s, and I remembered that I had read nice thing about H&S Target and Snowy River in another thread, in which it was consistently said that Snowy River but also Target were nice fabrics. There was a very nice dark blue cloth, not really navy (which was what I had been looking for) but sufficiently dark I think to look nice and formal for evening wear but also a little bit more "summertime" than pure navy, if you know what I mean. The grammage was 280. It was solid blue but with a little bit of "surface inerest" (it was like if you could see the weave, if you know what I mean; I am not sure about the term for it).
I decided to go for it. It ended up being a little bit more expensive than the Loro Piana choice, actually, it will be my most expensive suit ever, so I really hope I made the right choice.
Also, while I normally go for three button suits, I decided to try two buttons this time, I guess this more "open" look can be nice for hot summer days and nights. I understand that being tall (1.91m) a three-button suit may be the standard choice, but I guess that you should try different options and that it is nice to have some variety in the wardrobe.
 

dah328

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You made the right choice. H&S >> LP. If you search the archives, you will find several people who know their cloth who are not fans of LP worsteds. Comments like "it feels nice" or "it gets lots of compliments" have no bearing on the cloth's quality or durability. Those fake cashmere acrylic scarves they sell on the street in NYC for $5 feel nice, too.
 

Film Noir Buff

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Originally Posted by Sator
I am unsure about Scabal but Dormeil, along with Holland & Sherry don't weave anything of their own. They contract out weaving to mills and then resell their range. H Lesser weave their own.



Hi Sator,

Slight correction. H. Lesser doesn’t weave their own fabric. Weaving your own fabric is not a sign of anything else than a higher internal expense. Some places that weave their own fabric make inferior cloth. Plenty of material merchants get their things made to their own specifications and sell them to the public. Think of a good merchant as a designer and connoisseur.

Scabal weaves their own cloth and make terrific fabrics in their better books. For now H&S offers top notch stuff but things seem to be moving East in terms of where they order from.

I am not a huge fan of LP cloth; I have used their 110s cloth with 10% silk, it is luxurious and very current but not calculated to take a beating. H. Lesser is a very different cloth and has a very old world look and feel to it. It performs beautifully but is not luxurious in the modern sense.

Scabal makes great cloth and H&S does for the moment. I have suits and jackets from both companies and they perform wonderfully, and they have a modern finish (Smoother, wetter). I understand that Dormeuil also makes some great cloths though I am less familiar with them. I have DJ made from their wool barathea and a silk suit made from their silk faille. Both are serving well but I don’t exactly wear them every day. I know Corvato uses plenty of Dormeuil but remember most of his clients don’t have to deal with a suit for more than a couple of weeks if they don’t want to.
 

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How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 55 35.5%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 60 38.7%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 17 11.0%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 27 17.4%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 28 18.1%

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