Looking for a Gore-Tex down hooded jacket

[countrygent]

Hi,

I'm searching for a jacket that would be ideal for very specific weather - close to freezing with rain or wet snow/sleet. Looking for a down jacket, hip-length, with a Gore-Tex shell and hood, ideally in navy or black, and with minimal/no branding. Best options I've seen so far are the Veilance Altus and Node jackets.

Suggestions appreciated!

Thanks,
Hal

 

[dieworkwear]

Nothing comes to mind with those qualities, but I'm not sure a down jacket in Gore-Tex makes sense?

Gore-Tex is a trademarked name for a kind of three-layer fabric. There are different types of fabrics that work on this same system, but Gore-Tex is the best known. The key is the middle layer, which is a waterproof membrane. It allows small droplets to escape, but not big ones to enter. That means that heat can escape, but water can't come through. It's typically used for jackets that are designed to be waterproof, but allow the person to feel cool inside, particularly during strenuous activities. So you see it in things like parkas.

Event is a similar fabric.




The limitation on GoreTex comes through the two outer layers (like the bread part of a sandwich). If a manufacturer uses a material that's not very breathable, then the membrane layer serves little purpose. Imagine if the backing was rubber (not breathable). In that case, heat won't escape through the rubber anyway, so the membrane is pointless.

If you get a down jacket, you presumably want heat to stay inside the coat, not let it escape. I'm not sure having a GoreTex membrane in there makes sense.

 

[breakaway01]

I going to have to disagree with you on this @dieworkwear . I grew up in the PNW and I would say that I have a fair bit of experience with outdoor activities and being in conditions that the OP describes (e.g. Vancouver BC). Backpacking, downhill skiing, kayaking, etc.

The intent of GTX and other waterproof/breathable fabrics is to allow water vapor to escape but to keep larger water droplets out -- it is not to "let heat escape". The membrane (GTX, Event, etc) itself does not specifically promote heat transfer outward though it does reduce convective heat loss. Note that the diagram that you posted says nothing about heat -- it's all about water vapor, which if it condenses inside your jacket makes you feel clammy and sweaty. Otherwise why would many (if not all) modern mountaineering shells be made of W/B fabrics, and why would PNW backpackers swear by W/B fabrics in freezing rain? Arc'teryx sells 10 different insulated GTX jackets, and I think they know what they're doing.

To the OP -- under the conditions you describe, I would at least consider a synthetic insulator instead of down. Even the best W/B garments, under specific conditions (very wet, high humidity, high exertion leading to lots of water vapor output) will allow for condensation inside the garment. Down, when it gets wet, is a terrible insulator. But if you really want down, the Arc'teryx Camosun and Therme parkas probably check your boxes.

 

[dieworkwear]

I going to have to disagree with you on this @dieworkwear . I grew up in the PNW and I would say that I have a fair bit of experience with outdoor activities and being in conditions that the OP describes (e.g. Vancouver BC). Backpacking, downhill skiing, kayaking, etc.

The intent of GTX and other waterproof/breathable fabrics is to allow water vapor to escape but to keep larger water droplets out -- it is not to "let heat escape". The membrane (GTX, Event, etc) itself does not specifically promote heat transfer outward though it does reduce convective heat loss. Note that the diagram that you posted says nothing about heat -- it's all about water vapor, which if it condenses inside your jacket makes you feel clammy and sweaty. Otherwise why would many (if not all) modern mountaineering shells be made of W/B fabrics, and why would PNW backpackers swear by W/B fabrics in freezing rain? Arc'teryx sells 10 different insulated GTX jackets, and I think they know what they're doing.

To the OP -- under the conditions you describe, I would at least consider a synthetic insulator instead of down. Even the best W/B garments, under specific conditions (very wet, high humidity, high exertion leading to lots of water vapor output) will allow for condensation inside the garment. Down, when it gets wet, is a terrible insulator. But if you really want down, the Arc'teryx Camosun and Therme parkas probably check your boxes.

Agree on water vapor, but when you allow water vapor to escape, aren't you also letting out some heat?

 

[breakaway01]

Agree on water vapor, but when you allow water vapor to escape, aren't you also letting out some heat?

the amount of heat lost by water vapor leaving the garment is IMO not really noticeable and likely outweighed by the reduction in convective heat loss. Besides, try moderate-high intensity exercise in a garment that does not let water vapor out, and tell me how warm you feel when all of the condensed water inside your garment cools down.

 

[countrygent]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your thoughts! As someone living in Manitoba, who engages in a range of outdoors activities and does a lot of research on gear, I'm pretty familiar with the performance characteristics of both Gore-Tex and down garments. The intended use of this jacket would not be really high-exertion activities - I want something with decent insulation, that is wind and water proof but somewhat breathable.

My concern with synthetic insulation is that it tends to lose left fairly rapidly relative to down. Also, the issue of down wetting out is a much bigger problem when you require ongoing use without any opportunities to dry out, such as multi-day trips in very wet weather - I won't be using the jacket under those circumstances.

Arc'teryx makes great gear, but I'm hoping to find something with no obvious branding. In addition to Veilance, I've seen product similar to what I'm looking for from Herno Laminar in the past, and would love to find other small manufacturers doing similar stuff.

Cheers,
Hal

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I have a Canada Goose chateau parka from their black label line. It has the patch on the sleeve but in black and not so in your face. Not sure if that fits the bill.

 

[breakaway01]

Hard to beat Veilance for what you’re looking for. They are very nice coats.

 

[Desb4rd]

You've basically got two ways to go here.

An old-school "down jacket inside a WVP parka shell." These are typified by things like the NF McMurdo (and horde of imitators), but slicker more urban looking affairs like Patagonia's City Storm are available (at a price!) Load of choice here - you can pick your look, cut, face fabric - though be mindful that heavy outers tend to knock the loft out of down. Separates are an obvious option here - nice if you're in and out of a vehicle, you can keep the down on without the (stiff and possibly wet) shell.

More modern affairs (only RAB https://rab.equipment/uk/ immediately comes to mind, but there must be others) manage to work the outer shell, taped seems and all, into the traditional baffle structure - these are much lighter and tend to make better use of their fill. Not a lot of choice here and they're all going to look like trad. down jackets with odd seems.

What I would note is that the shell doesn't need to be the best of the best, because:
i. It's a big down jacket - too much insulation for anything more than quite low-intensity activity.
ii. You wear a WP shell in wet weather ie. high humidity and it's only the outside-to-inside temperature difference - and the resulting difference in vapour saturation levels - that keeps the shell breathing. GTX and most other shells *need* that difference if they're to breath at all. Thus placing a great wad of insulation between the heat source and the inner face of the shell unpicks this mechanism; the air immediately inside the shell is (near as damn-it) as cold as air outside, so breathability will be very limited regardless of fabric type. (Also not great if you live in the UK; never that cold, always humid, frequently wet...)

 

[robxznyc]

Herno Leminar Gore-Tex parka with detachable down liner.

If you are open to down alternative, Primaloft insulation, C.P. Company released a Gore-tex xenia and Primaloft gold combo hooded jacket for FW20.

 

[Stanton]

The Herno looks really nice, I didn´t know that brand