Looking at a tuxedo, seeking thoughts

[natewears]

Getting married this summer and SO wants me to wear a black tux. The event is not black tie, just formal, but wants me to wear something nice. I do not have a tux at present, but would probably get a couple of times per year use out of it (weddings + opera).

I'm 5'10 and average body, 170lbs. Can usually find a suit off the rack which fits well and needs minimal tailoring.

I don't have interest in renting obviously, defeats the purpose. I don't want to spend $5k on a tux, but want something nicer than, say, what SuitSupply has to offer. I found a Z Zenga which we both really like and it's quite affordable, but I am learning more about these suits and their construction and some people say that it's basically overpriced junk. Having a hard time getting the real rub on this. The specific one is around $1700 for jacket and pants. My assessment is that to get something really quality I will need to spend at least double that. How much life can I really expect to get out of a half-canvas tux from Z Zenga? What would you do? I'm also open to buying a really nice black suit - but then I end up looking at options that are way more than I want to spend.

Thanks

 

[Crispyj]

Armoury has the model 4 that's a black tuxedo with peak lapels. If you want something nicer, Model 101 is shawl lapels, more unique.

Wool Model 4 Tuxedo - The Armoury

Wool Model 101 Tuxedo - The Armoury

Z Zegna is like fashion labels, not worth the markup.

 

[natewears]

Armoury has the model 4 that's a black tuxedo with peak lapels. If you want something nicer, Model 101 is shawl lapels, more unique.

Wool Model 4 Tuxedo - The Armoury

Wool Model 101 Tuxedo - The Armoury

Z Zegna is like fashion labels, not worth the markup.

thanks for the other options

i actually looked at the model 101 before, but didn't like how large the shawl collar was. also seems to not be in stock. shawl collar is my strong preference, but i like them to look a little more slim/subtle

i am a total noob on this stuff. what makes the armoury a better value? i agree that Z Zenga is a fashion label (just the lower tier of the brand) that's just jacked up price - but the tux did look really good on me. so i need the garment to have value in not just being better construction/life, it needs to compete in actual look too - you know?

 

[Crispyj]

thanks for the other options

i actually looked at the model 101 before, but didn't like how large the shawl collar was. also seems to not be in stock. shawl collar is my strong preference, but i like them to look a little more slim/subtle

i am a total noob on this stuff. what makes the armoury a better value? i agree that Z Zenga is a fashion label (just the lower tier of the brand) that's just jacked up price - but the tux did look really good on me. so i need the garment to have value in not just being better construction/life, it needs to compete in actual look too - you know?

Armoury Model 101 shawl lapels are in no way "wide". They are normal width, just under 4" I am assuming.
Z Zegna tux I just googled, the shawl lapels look bland and a bad shape.

Z Zegna probably gets a factory to make their stuff with machine, probably should retail $500-600 instead of $1700. Basic block pattern, run of the mill.

Armoury Model 101 is made by Saint Andrews, a high end large size workshop. A lot more handmade details and the base pattern has a lot more character.

If you don't care about the maker, it fits you and you like it, just buy it.
I think most people on this forum would agree that guys would look better in the Armoury stuff than Z Zegna stuff.

 

[natewears]

Armoury Model 101 shawl lapels are in no way "wide". They are normal width, just under 4" I am assuming.
Z Zegna tux I just googled, the shawl lapels look bland and a bad shape.

Z Zegna probably gets a factory to make their stuff with machine, probably should retail $500-600 instead of $1700. Basic block pattern, run of the mill.

Armoury Model 101 is made by Saint Andrews, a high end large size workshop. A lot more handmade details and the base pattern has a lot more character.

If you don't care about the maker, it fits you and you like it, just buy it.
I think most people on this forum would agree that guys would look better in the Armoury stuff than Z Zegna stuff.

i keep seeing people saying things like this...but where can i go buy a tux that looks like that for $500-600? anytime i go to a department store or look online or whatever that's just not the pricing i find. am i missing something on my options?

 

[Crispyj]

i keep seeing people saying things like this...but where can i go buy a tux that looks like that for $500-600? anytime i go to a department store or look online or whatever that's just not the pricing i find. am i missing something on my options?

Figure out which factory they use and buy direct from them.

 

[ValidusLA]

Where do you live? If you have access to certain makers, or where they travel, you can get something much better than Z Zegna for the Armoury price or less.

That said, if you think the Armoury lapels are too wide, you probably won't find a ton of agreement w/ the styling on this board.

 

[natewears]

Where do you live? If you have access to certain makers, or where they travel, you can get something much better than Z Zegna for the Armoury price or less.

That said, if you think the Armoury lapels are too wide, you probably won't find a ton of agreement w/ the styling on this board.

i’m part time in bay area and other time in los angeles

 

[ValidusLA]

Both High Society and Divij Hemraijani in Los Angeles can do bespoke for you for less than the Armoury model.

https://www.instagram.com/styleafter50/?hl=en is here on SF and gets most (I think) of his dinner jackets from Divij. Divij is in Costa Mesa - I'm not sure if you could get it in time, but I'm sure he could work w/ you.

High Society made my tux for my wedding. They can definitely do it in time if you let them know when needed, though you will need multiple fittings. They are in Beverly Hills.

 

[breakaway01]

You and your fiancee (congrats BTW) both like how the Z Zegna looks on you, but on the other hand you are bothered by the possibility that construction quality could be better. You are getting some pushback here not just because Z Zegna construction could be better for the price point, but also because their styling leans more trendy rather than classic.

At the end of the day, this is still your wedding. People here will recommend a more classic shawl lapel collar jacket because that's, well, more classic. But you and your fiancee need to be happy with the look as well. If you want a slimmer cut tuxedo with slimmer lapels, I would say that Z Zegna is probably not better in terms of construction quality than SuitSupply, and you may as well go with SuitSupply (assuming you are okay with how it fits you) and save nearly a thousand dollars.

If you really do want the look of the Z Zegna but with better materials and construction techniques and don't want to spend much more than $2k, then I agree with @ValidusLA that you may want to look into whether Divij Bespoke can turn things around in time for your wedding. They should be able to cut a tuxedo with the look you want within your price point.

Don't try to buy a tuxedo direct from a factory (if that needed to be said).

 

[natewears]

You and your fiancee (congrats BTW) both like how the Z Zegna looks on you, but on the other hand you are bothered by the possibility that construction quality could be better. You are getting some pushback here not just because Z Zegna construction could be better for the price point, but also because their styling leans more trendy rather than classic.

At the end of the day, this is still your wedding. People here will recommend a more classic shawl lapel collar jacket because that's, well, more classic. But you and your fiancee need to be happy with the look as well. If you want a slimmer cut tuxedo with slimmer lapels, I would say that Z Zegna is probably not better in terms of construction quality than SuitSupply, and you may as well go with SuitSupply (assuming you are okay with how it fits you) and save nearly a thousand dollars.

If you really do want the look of the Z Zegna but with better materials and construction techniques and don't want to spend much more than $2k, then I agree with @ValidusLA that you may want to look into whether Divij Bespoke can turn things around in time for your wedding. They should be able to cut a tuxedo with the look you want within your price point.

Don't try to buy a tuxedo direct from a factory (if that needed to be said).

hey thanks for the reply

the divij bespoke sounds great, going to try that route. seems like a great deal honestly

if that won't work, will just go the department store route

 

[maxalex]

In 2002 I was hired to edit a book by George Plimpton which found me basically living in his Manhattan townhouse for six months. He kept his tux on a cheap hanger in his cluttered office because he wore it almost every night, to one event or another, and he changed in front of me at the end of every day (a process which I am still trying to un-see). I wish I had thought to ask him about the provenance of that tux, but it had a lived-in look that suggested it had seen many years. He apparently had not gained a pound since his Harvard days despite a fondness for Tom Collins cocktails at lunch, and I'm guessing the tux may have dated to that era.

Moral of the story is that a tuxedo is forever--assuming you have dessert less often than sex, and walk around the park now and then. To be safe (or to use the modern term "future proofing"), it's worth making sure there's enough material behind the seams for alterations in later years. I think you're on the right track and you have some good advice here. Armoury is always a good bet. Shawl collar is best.

 

[rjc149]

He apparently had not gained a pound since his Harvard days despite a fondness for Tom Collins cocktails at lunch

Most likely also a fondness for cocaine.

 

[maxalex]

Most likely also a fondness for cocaine.

Not even remotely.

 

[rjc149]

Not even remotely.

Maybe. I’m assuming a middle-aged man partying virtually every night — sugary alcoholic beverages throughout the day, calorie-dense hors d’oeuvres and meals, poor sleep, little exercise, all correlated with low testosterone… his secret to keeping weight gain at bay is usually not much of a secret. I’ve known a few middle-aged men in “client nurturing” roles who couldn’t live that lifestyle without some sort of stimulant. Maybe he’s a unicorn.