Let's Talk About Replica Watches...

[Ahab]

Originally Posted by apropos

Yes, except the original company gets no royalties.
But the original Submariner design is no longer protected by Trademark and part of the public domain?

 

[Prince of Paisley]

There are plenty of reasonably priced watches out there that are overflowing with quality engineering and unique design. Why anyone would buy a Steinhart copy of a Rolex over a Max Bill Chronoscope I have no idea.

 

[TheWraith]

Originally Posted by Prince of Paisley

Don't take this as a personal attack, but what is the "clear difference"? I don't think you've established this yet. As I see it:
One is labelled as though it is representing a company that it is not, and is usually of a poor quality, the other takes design aspects of another watch but has its own little touches and its own brand label on it and is often of a much better overall quality. That's just common sense. You hardly needed me to explain that to you, surely? When one thinks about it, most diver watches look the same to most people. There are many such watches that aren't known as homages that look very much like each other. How many watches use the same sort of dial, bezels, colours, hands etc. etc. I think some people here can be a little petty about such things. If anyone doesn't like homage watches, that's fine. But don't be a snob about it or claim you're preaching from some lofty heights. Some people can't afford a Rolex/PP/whatever but still want a watch that looks vaguely like their favourite expensive watches and to be of a good quality and not an el-cheapo fake from China. I certainly don't begrudge such people from buying a Debaufre/Steinhart etc. If anyone here does, that's their right, but I think they're a snob for doing so.

Originally Posted by Prince of Paisley

There are plenty of reasonably priced watches out there that are overflowing with quality engineering and unique design. Why anyone would buy a Steinhart copy of a Rolex over a Max Bill Chronoscope I have no idea.
To each their own. Perhaps some people don't share your opinions/tastes.

 

[guhmok]

With so many affordable models that are quality pieces there is no reason to wear replicas, and the good replicas can cost hundreds of dollars. At those prices it's better to go used/vintage IMHO.

 

[TheWraith]

Originally Posted by guhmok

With so many affordable models that are quality pieces there is no reason to wear replicas, and the good replicas can cost hundreds of dollars. At those prices it's better to go used/vintage IMHO.

+1

Never buy a replica under any circumstances. Yes, there are some more expensive replicas, but they're claimed to be better in quality than they are.

 

[elsteve9]

Originally Posted by Firstladyofsong

This report is quite informative. One problem though is that it's dated (2003).

http://www.gacg.org/Content/Upload/D...rapport_uk.pdf
Lso see Moises Naim's book, "Illicit." He's the editor for Foreign Policy Magazine.

For connections to terrorism, see articles by Pepe Escobar. He's done a lot of work with traffikers in Afghanistan. Normally he writes for the Asia Times, but he also publishes w/ others, and even his Asia Times articles are frequently reposted.


There's another book that draws closer connections to Terrorism, but I can't remember the name off the top of my head. If you're interested, holla'me.


-Stephen

 

[aleksandr]

Originally Posted by TheWraith

When one thinks about it, most diver watches look the same to most people. There are many such watches that aren't known as homages that look very much like each other. How many watches use the same sort of dial, bezels, colours, hands etc. etc. I think some people here can be a little petty about such things. If anyone doesn't like homage watches, that's fine. But don't be a snob about it or claim you're preaching from some lofty heights. Some people can't afford a Rolex/PP/whatever but still want a watch that looks vaguely like their favourite expensive watches and to be of a good quality and not an el-cheapo fake from China. I certainly don't begrudge such people from buying a Debaufre/Steinhart etc. If anyone here does, that's their right, but I think they're a snob for doing so.

To each their own. Perhaps some people don't share your opinions/tastes.

Very well put. Hear, hear.

 

[apropos]

Originally Posted by TheWraith

When one thinks about it, most diver watches look the same to most people. There are many such watches that aren't known as homages that look very much like each other. How many watches use the same sort of dial, bezels, colours, hands etc. etc. I think some people here can be a little petty about such things. If anyone doesn't like homage watches, that's fine. But don't be a snob about it or claim you're preaching from some lofty heights. Some people can't afford a Rolex/PP/whatever but still want a watch that looks vaguely like their favourite expensive watches and to be of a good quality and not an el-cheapo fake from China. I certainly don't begrudge such people from buying a Debaufre/Steinhart etc. If anyone here does, that's their right, but I think they're a snob for doing so.
Yeh whatever, your rationalisation still doesn't negate in a single way this...

...but don't let the evidence get in the way of a good 'homage' watch that's so much cheaper than a Rolex, SWISS MADE, and so much better than the original it rips off too! Remember kids - REPLICAs are BAD, but HOMAGEs are GOOD!

 

[aleksandr]

Okay:

Now what? So if a watch rips off another watch but is expensive too, thats fine?

 

[apropos]

Well moot point really, since you're not in the market for either right? That's the best you can come up with, really? I'm sure people are going to confuse an orange bezel for a green one, even at 20m.

 

[aleksandr]

Originally Posted by apropos

Well moot point really, since you're not in the market for either right?

Not really no. I have a Yachtmaster and that's filled my quota of bulky pseudo-sport watches.

Originally Posted by apropos

That's the best you can come up with, really? I'm sure people are going to confuse an orange bezel for a green one, even at 20m.

Well, it was a 5 minute google images hack job

There are plain bezel-ed POs out there, just happened that the one I found next to a Submariner was bright orange.

 

[apropos]

Well, either way trying to say that a Seamaster is somehow at the same level of a Steinhart is plain stupidity on your part, real dense stupidity. The Seamaster isn't trying to be a Submariner, but the Steinhart is clearly trying to be a Seadweller. Oh wait sorry, I meant that it was paying homage to the Seadweller design. I guess you guys are not only poor/cheap, in denial, and cheesy, but blind as well.

 

[Ahab]

Originally Posted by apropos

Yeh whatever, your rationalisation still doesn't negate in a single way this...

...but don't let the evidence get in the way of a good 'homage' watch that's so much cheaper than a Rolex, SWISS MADE, and so much better than the original it rips off too!

Remember kids - REPLICAs are BAD, but HOMAGEs are GOOD!

OK, I mispoke when I used the word Trademark but this isn't this design now part of the public domain? As opposed the the fakes that steal the current designs and illegally use the Trademarks?

 

[in stitches]

Originally Posted by Patek

Not entirely true. One of the reasons why I currently have a vintage JLC on my wrist right now is because they make all of their own movements and parts and also make them for other, more expensive brands.

true true, that is why i also wear a jlc (reverso squadra) i just got heated about the assertion that rolex is in the same category as breitling and tag i forgot to cool off and answer with a cool head, jlc even makes movements for AP one of the so called "big three"

 

[Xenon]

Originally Posted by Metlin

The basic movements by themselves are only part of it -- the other part of it is how much watch houses customize and extend the movements. That is not an easy task. I know next to nothing about watches, but I would be an idiot to think that just because two watches use the same movement, they are the same.

I also know next to nothing about watches and so can only deduce from the little I have researched. As such I agree with everything you wrote here.

Here is my point clarified from a novice perspective as I suspect our opinions are not that far apart.

The Fake/replica watches purchased were between $300 to $600 (all automatics)and for that price point represent to me (not a watch enthusiast) a value proposition given that must use generic swiss eta movements (2824, 2892, 2894) and a couple use asian valjoux 7750s .These movements are considered reasonably accurate and reliable/robust. They certainly will not blow anyone away and are merely honda engines but should likely last 5 years. The external housing and bracelet is surprisingly carefully finished/polished and everything is functional including screws ect.

The housings, backplate, bracelets are likely of generic stainless steel (300 series having low carbon content) by how easily they scratch (not heat treatable - only work hardenned) but show no sign of being corrosion prone. That said they do not appear to be any softer then completely swiss made watches owned by myself, family. friends, relatives. Perhaps likley they have lower tensile strength and sloppier internal machining then the swiss - I cannot tell or compare. The saphire is almost certainly of inferior make and handling as top grade saphire (not just for watches) is expensive and would not fit into thier price point. The saphire on fakes would shatter much more easily I suspect. Also the waterproofing is certainly almost non-existent. They keep reaonably accurate time in my environment where on average they seem to lose about 6-8 seconds a day.

Despite this I expect the complete watches to last 5 years given the above and are attractive timepieces. The fake names (Cartier, AP, hublot) carry no weight where I work/hangout except maybe at a few clothing stores. Almost noone will give my watches special consideration apart from the fact that they are relatively nice looking and compliment the outfit. These are NOT HEIRLOOMS and I am not a collector and they will not be handed down to my children. In time when the movement requires servicing- these watches will NOT get it but be disposed of instead.

I have read here that a typical 5 year interval service is $500 and my swiss watches were serviced for about $400 (plus tax). The service is basically the cost of a new fake - this alone sealed the deal for me. $500 on a $5000 to $10000 watch does not represent value to me and I suspect will not represent value to many others either. I can only justify this level of service cost as reasonable on hard usage items such as cars - not a watch.

So bottom line if you are not a dyed in the wool watch lover or your yearly take home is less than half a million, and simply want a nice looking/working watch where a name means nothing fakes may be considered a good value proposition. In fact consider all watches at the price point and chose the one you find the most appealing.

Lastly concerning breast implants I have not in the past ever had any qualms about going out with women who visibly had breast implants. All else being held equal (totally hypothetical) I would prefer a C cup over an A or B. That said my wife is natural and this would be preferable for practical reasons such as breast feeding and avoiding the potential infection or need to replace in 20 years or so. Implants need to be considered carefully but the results can be quite nice and age well.