Lets talk about COFFEE

[Sprezziamo]

I just highly doubt that the cafe had a separate grinder with fresh Italian style espresso blends just in case a customer came in and informed the barista he was Italian.

But who knows maybe they did.

I'm not an expert (read: totally clueless) about the process used by cafes.

If this can help you, the "normal" coffee looks like coke, has no foam at all, and tastes, well, pretty much like hot water. Also, the quantity is definitely larger (150-200%).

 

[A Y]



Where a regular espresso is at 50%? So it's a really long espresso using drip coffee beans?

Is a regular espresso really at 50% extraction ratio? That seems awfully high.

Anyway, here's a guide to the coffee shot:

http://sprudge.com/know-deal-mahlkonig-releases-coffee-shot-guide.html

 

[joshuadowen]

Is a regular espresso really at 50% extraction ratio? That seems awfully high.

Anyway, here's a guide to the coffee shot:

http://sprudge.com/know-deal-mahlkonig-releases-coffee-shot-guide.html

No, it's not. You can only dissolve about 24-25 percent of a coffee bean. The rest is cellulose and other material that isn't water soluble. That last couple of percent of dissolvable material is the most bitter part of the coffee, so a properly extracted shot has the same yield as a properly extracted brewed coffee - somewhere around 20 percent.

The major different between brewed coffee and espresso isn't the extraction yield, it's the ratio of dissolved solids to water. Espresso has a much higher concentration of dissolved solids relative to the water content. This should be fairly intuitive, as you are using a much higher ratio of coffee-to-water in the brewing itself.

 

[indesertum]

Quote button doesn't work any more

Sprezziamo, but I thought we were talking about espressos? Pretty sure no matter what you do in an espresso machine some crema will come out. Even Starbucks espressos have crema. If not it sounds like the barista gave your friends drip coffee and gave you an americano (which is funny because that's named after American soldiers that popularized it). Usually the crema lingers for awhile which creates a foam in top but in drip coffee there practically is no crema.

Ay I'm pretty sure that's right. Can't find my scott rao book but 1:1 is the ratio for a regular espresso.

When I say extraction ratio I was talking about the weight of the dry coffee divided by the weight if the liquid coffee. I think this is properly called brew ratio. You're talking about extraction yield. I think we're talking about different things

Thanks for the link. It sounds interesting.

Sounds like a really long lungo with high extraction. Wonder if there are any shops in the city doing that

 

[A Y]

Hmm, most espressos are around 2 oz, or 50-ish grams of liquid. Even if you overdose at 20+ grams, that's not even 50% in the portafilter before extraction. Surely TDS will be much lower in the resulting liquid?

 

[b1os]

Maybe it was a Bialetti. They basically have no crema at all (unless you talk about Brikka's fake crema, which isn't crema either).

Edit: Oh, didn't see that last post. Of course, when your colleagues order "coffee", they receive brewed coffee. It's not like ordering caffè in Italy where you receive an espresso. In the UK, or most countries, you have to order an espresso to get an espresso.

 

[joshuadowen]

Ay I'm pretty sure that's right. Can't find my scott rao book but 1:1 is the ratio for a regular espresso.

When I say extraction ratio I was talking about the weight of the dry coffee divided by the weight if the liquid coffee. I think we're talking about different things

Thanks for the link. It sounds interesting.

These might be helpful images:

Coffee:


Above is a brew chart for brewed coffee. You can (maybe?) see that optimum extraction is around 20 percent, while optimum TDS is just under 1.3 percent.

Espresso:

For espresso, the optimum extraction is still at 20 percent, while the optimum TDS rises to about 10 percent.

These are just "normal" numbers, and will vary a bit depending on consumer preference and also on what's best for a particular coffee, but 50 percent TDS would be viscous sludge, and is basically impossible to pull on an espresso machine anyway.

 

[indesertum]

I'm not talking about tds which is the amount of solute extracted from coffee in water. I'm not talking about extraction yield which is amount of solute extracted from dry grounds. I simply thought ay was talking about amount of dry grounds in water which is sometimes referred to as extraction ratio but more properly as brew ratio

You're completely right tho about 20% yield and 10% tds. The charts are helpful but again we are talking about different things

There's a chart in raos book I'm thinking of that has the brew ratios in it and I'm pretty sure he had normal at 1:1.

It was extremely similar to this one. The weight was at 7, 14, 21 for single double and triple

I think I lost my book cuz I can't find it

 

[joshuadowen]

I'm not talking about tds which is the amount of solute extracted from coffee in water. I'm not talking about extraction yield which is amount of solute extracted from dry grounds. I simply thought ay was talking about amount of dry grounds in water which is sometimes referred to as extraction ratio but more properly as brew ratio

You're completely right tho about 20% yield and 10% tds. The charts are helpful but again we are talking about different things

There's a chart in raos book I'm thinking of that has the brew ratios in it and I'm pretty sure he had normal at 1:1.

It was extremely similar to this one. The weight was at 7, 14, 21 for single double and triple

I think I lost my book cuz I can't find it

I understand what you are talking about now. Brew ratio is a completely different thing than I was talking about - though I've never heard it used interchangeably with the phrase extraction ratio.

 

[indesertum]

http://www.home-barista.com/tips/brewing-ratios-for-espresso-beverages-t2402.html

I've heard it before as extraction ratio. It's probably the wrong term or possibly a lesser used term. The guy here says he also used to call it extraction ratio

Also I think what you were talking about is more often referred to as yield or extraction yield. In my mind ratio conjures up brewing ratio

 

[Despos]



Lefty, I only get Clover brewed coffee there. Not anything else.

Had the cleanest cup of coffee ever, made on a steampunk machine. If you find one in NY, try it

 

[joshuadowen]

Just had the cleanest cup of coffee ever, made on a steampunk machine. If you find one in NY, try it

Yeah they are pretty awesome. I just spent a few days with them in Salt Lake City. We've got 4 machines being built for us right now.

 

[Despos]

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[joshuadowen]

Had the cleanest cup of coffee ever, made on a steampunk machine. If you find one in NY, try it

FYI, I'm pretty sure all of the La Colombe locations have Steampunks.

 

[A Y]

The Steampunk machines strike me as the coffee equivalent of Neopolitan cubic MoP shirt buttons. What's the difference between that and an Aeropress?