Lets talk about COFFEE

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Flambeur, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. b1os

    b1os Senior member

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    I'm pretty sure that's a phenomenon that is accurate for soap, but thinking that this applies for coffee makes no sense. A quick Google search, which you could have done yourself, clears things up. http://chemistry.about.com/od/howthingsworkfaqs/a/softwaterrinse.htm
    Of course, a similar explanation might hold true for coffee. But just because the soap effect is true doesn't mean much regarding coffee.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013


  2. b1os

    b1os Senior member

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    To sum it up: We need a TDS meter, coffee, a good grinder, a french press or CCD, distilled, soft and hard water. Anyone willing to jump in to do the experiment? :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013


  3. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Lefty, I only get Clover brewed coffee there. Not anything else.
     


  4. Gibonius

    Gibonius Senior member

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    It certainly could influence extraction, but I can't think of a chemical reason why it would (fwiw I'm a chemist). The concentration ("PPM") of mineral ions is quite low, and should be unrelated to the amount of coffee organics that can be extracted by the water. Soap/water is a particular chemical process, and nothing analogous is happening in coffee (that I know of). It could change the acidity of the coffee, but I think you'd need quite hard water for that. To the point where the water itself would taste bad anyway.

    Water mineral content could be influencing taste, mostly because different minerals preferentially activate different taste buds on your tongue. There's going to be a lot of coffee nerds with no experience in chemistry coming up with explanations for a human perception (taste) that isn't necessarily related to the chemistry of extraction, and lacking the proper tools to really test it.

    Distilled water A) tastes terrible B) tends to get acidic from absorbing CO2 because it's not buffered by the trace ions.


    If you really wanted to do it right, you'd probably need a gas chromatograph or HP-LC. Measure the concentration of all coffee solutes and water hardness, then taste. Only way to isolate the effect of extraction chemistry vs other effects on perception (taste).

    The topic has been studied a bit. There's apparently a whole scientific society about coffee chemistry. The chemistry of espresso is especially complex, given the high pressure and temperature. Neat stuff. I couldn't find anything on the mineral content of the water though.
     


  5. Gibonius

    Gibonius Senior member

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    edit: double post
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013


  6. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    PB, couldn't you just lean over and look at the Clover's display panel to see the brew parameters?
     


  7. b1os

    b1os Senior member

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    It's probably encrypted.
     


  8. size 38R

    size 38R Senior member

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    Indesertum,
    a rosetta? fantastic!you seem to be on the right path, but if that is a latte? wrong glass, and a flat white should have less than 5 mm of thickness on the top. keep at it.
    here's 2, coffees. made by me.
    [​IMG]
    i can hear your drooling, these are flat whites.
    this is not my job, i just like a good coffee.

    P.B, the taste is "Oxydisation" as coffee oxidises in less than 15 seconds when extracted. and goes bitter. hit the milk in less than 5 to taste the difference.
    fuck, i hate the "MYSTERY" behind a good coffee, barista's are not magicians.[​IMG]

    and fuck the "Single origin" B.S. and "Boutique roasting" , and any other way you want to create a limp wristed attempt at a burnt coffee with a rosetta on it.and claim it's the "boutique" way, if i had a dollar for every time i heard some small shop single roast was the right way, i could put a La' marzocco in my home kitchen.
    hard water, soft water, filtered water, black beans, green beans, etc.
    oh my god. just make me a decent coffee you stretch eared , make up wearing hipster in a skinny tie!!!!!!!![​IMG] aaaaaargghhhh, don't make me come over there!!!!!!!!!!![​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013


  9. scottcw

    scottcw Senior member

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    And you are questioning those who prefer single origin? Just sayin'.
     


  10. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    You may have to walk me through this holding my hand the entire time. Is this something that's going to cost me $10 a cup?

    lefty
     


  11. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    Depending on the bean, it varies from $2.75 to under $4 for the tall size. I just got the aged Sumatra today for $2.75, and I looked at the Clover, but the only thing it displays is a countdown. No temperature. The barista just tells the machine what bean he's using, and the machine sets itself up. They can make Clover coffees from the regular coffee as well as the reserve coffees. It's the reserve coffees that you want to try.

    The aged Sumatra is very interesting: a little spicey, and very woodsy.

    edit: I should add that not all Starbucks locations carry the Clover and their reserve coffees. Best to look up the stores on their website before making the trek if you're not sure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013


  12. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    Maybe I'm old, but I'd have a very hard time spending $4 on a cup of coffee. $2 galls me.

    lefty
     


  13. scottcw

    scottcw Senior member

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    That's why I do everything from roast to brew at home. I can get 16+ cups for less than $10. Tastes better, too.
     


  14. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    There's no way this a common issue to french presses. There's just no way you can underextract and overextract in an immersion brew. With something like an espresso that's totally possible
     


  15. indesertum

    indesertum Senior member

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    Lefty it's not a $10 coffee but could potentially be $3 or $4

    Cafe grumpy also has a clover machine if you're adverse to Starbucks

    Makes a damn good coffee tho
     


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