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double00

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It's prob not big enough to be described as a fashion trend. So maybe zeitgeist? Although that feels like a bigger word than "fashion trend."
maybe it's a * mode * , maybe even to the wearer this is an ephemeral *third place* sort of affect , a public notion of self that marries standing comfort with the pursuit or receipt of knowledges . akin to cafe etc . at home , in public ...
 

FlyingHorker

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I'm good with whatever gets people reading actual books, but I'm not sure there's anything new about this way of dressing.
In a way, there isn't.

As Derek wrote in his article

"Bookcore is an amalgamation of the last five years of trends: normcore, gorpcore, dadcore, vintage, 1990s sportswear, American trad, Westernwear, Native American jewelry, pleats, dad caps, wide-legged trousers, oversized eyewear, Balmacaans, leather blazers, Patagonia, chunky sneakers, intentionally ugly shoes, etc"

All fashion and trends are cyclical, but they can be incorporated in different ways that feel fun and enjoyable.

The raglan coat was one facet focused on in the article. My tailor told me he hadn't made a raglan coat in decades, and then made 3 within the past year.

The raglan coat is not technically "new". The garment is new to me and others though, and especially on how it can be incorporated into a wardrobe. I've thrown it over a hoodie or a sports coat and it felt and looked natural.

I wouldn't have thought to wear raglan coats like that without writings and pictures like Derek's blog.

Personally, I really enjoy when my wardrobe starts to have more coherence and versatility as well, and there's a tonne of coherence in the latest article.
 

Daniel Hakimi

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Ah yes, menswear revolves around new aesthetics that don't actually exist rather than the development and quality of said clothing. You seem to care more about the image than the actual clothing itself. It's very try hard and shallow. I should leave an entire forum simply because I don't buy into some guys fantasy? Please... What speaks to you is the sense of community not the actual aesthetic itself. It's a sign of needing belonging.
You had, immediately before this, criticized him for writing about a style that already existed, and now it's for writing about a style that doesn't? Is one allowed to write or speak or think about style at all? Yes, canvas and milanese buttonholes are very nice, but is that all we have?

It feels for that reason like a cultural/class signifier more than a style. Or, the Venn diagram of “bookcore” and “(mostly) white, college educated urban liberal” seems to be almost totally overlapped. Respect to Bruce Boyer, but the photo in the piece of him is the same photo for classic menswear and CM style or how to blend CM Anglo/American/Italian style. That, and western wear and gorpcore and…again, what isn’t bookcore? Is my Dad’s weekend wear of Eddie Bauer jacket, jeans, Merrell hiking sneakers and plaid BDC shirt bookcore because he is old and doesn’t care?
If you look through all the photos of men who are not models wearing expensive clothing, yes, you will see a disproportionately large number of educated white men -- they tend to be the ones with more money. They also tend to be more interested in tailoring, from what I've seen -- the masses usually tend towards hoodies, which can still be bookcore, and parkas, which are distinctly less bookcore than overcoats. They also tend to prefer shoes that they would not describe as ugly... Although they are ugly, and bad ugly. Squared off bicicyle-toe venetian loafers you got from Marshall's are not really bookcore. Neither are the serviceable sneakers from Vans, nor Stan Smiths.

Everything we talk about here is more common among the walthy. That includes streetwear too, I think, even though it's not supposed to feel like what white people wear, because good streetwear is expensive and white people buy it.

You'd have a point if it was a trend. It's not. It's made up. There is no context.
Where do you live? I see this trend. I'm not sur why you don't.

But hey, if he had invented it from thin air, his point would only be better. At that point, it's not mere writing, but design. Hey, Derek, when are you starting your own brand?

Isn't that Modest Man? He's showing how to look nice, not disheveled.
He's showing how wo wear a simple, slim, boring silhouette. There are other silhouettes under the sun that look nice.
 

Adsky Luck

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bookcore... check



the question i'am puzzling over

 

am55

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gawd derek, do you give off some kind of e-pheromone to bring loons out of the woodwork? I think among the X-iGentry you’re closer to Wolverine: the best there is at what you do but your reply guys aren’t very nice.

(caption: you don't have to be from the herd to lead it)
 

Geoffrey Firmin

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Interesting I attend a lot of author talks at ANU & NLA the start time coincides with post work on the way home. Or the silver fox brigade and a mix of students looking post grunge and punk depending on the author. The only logical consistency I’ve seen in terms of audience attire is Happy Sox‘s.

And slightly on topic I discovered that there is a Penguin collectors thread on Instagram #seabirdsonsaturday
 

Fuuma

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This discussion is suffering from a lack of situating what the "core" type trends really are. It is crucial to understand something about epistemology and the models/theories about "the real" we create: they are not the actual fucking thing (the real) but a way to represent it so we can make sense of something that would otherwise simply be the pure chaos of infinite information. Knowledge is always, in a sense, an act of creation. There are many ways to cut beef (for example French and English cuts) so even though we are looking at the same animal (the real) the way to cut it (represent it) may differ. What I mean by that metaphor is that the cores vs the usual stuff discussed here (ivy, conservative business dress, streetwear, Americana) are just two ways to look at the idea of trends in fashion and AT THE SAME TIME cannot be dis-joined from the idea of generation/creation.

Now that I’ve clarified the epistemological context above, a few things about the cores:

  • From what I have seen the cores (cottagecore,weirdcore or whatever, including “cores” without the word core in them like dark academia or whatever) are web-born phenomena hence the perception by some poasters here that they are less authentic than older styles like Ivy. Ivy is supposedly attached to a place, a time and a social milieu or, more cogently it is mythologized that way.
  • The people involved in discussing these things tend to be very online/gen-z or youngish millennials and from Anglo-Saxon countries but that is merely a statistical probability (and not cultural requirement)
  • Like a lot of online communities (sound cloud rap or whatever) there are much less or even no ties to regional cultures (Memphis style rap flourishes can be adopted by a Belgian DJ without it mattering) and actually existing subcultures of lifestyles and even social classes (purely theoretical as demographics are very specific).
  • While images and items from the past are constantly being re-used this is more akin to sampling than to a continuation, as mentioned above this is a different way to cut the beef by people who don’t adopt the conceptual framework from past real-world analysis of fashion, which can create tension or incomprehension (fucking English people are using the wrong cuts!!!!).
  • Web-based phenomena will generally create a system of equivalency of images that does not exist in the “real world”™ so an image of a cartoon is the same as an images of a movie character is the same as your grandpa’s picture or some videogame screencap. You will note that a style and behavioural mode like e-girls is not practical in real life and even tend to use certain app-related tools and thus used almost 100% for tiktok videos and not to go to school or whatever.
  • Cores will go beyond fashion to create a general mood board, in other words an aesthetic toolbox to be used for various pursuits from an outfit to interior deco to app design and anything in between.
  • Core are elective communities so if you’re interested and play nice even an old CM dad can acquire some major witchcore clout. If you don’t like it well no problem, the communities being elective means no one is “born into them” so I don’t know why you’re complaining here, you can just ignore their existence, they will only jump into “real life” in a very selective, diluted and almost unnoticeable way.
 

am55

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And slightly on topic I discovered that there is a Penguin collectors thread on Instagram #seabirdsonsaturday
Made me realise these things have to be decentralised and offline... I was invited last year to a Hong Kong book club (and I'm not in Hong Kong) and then uninvited after my first suggestions (such as a first hand account from a Russian soldier, later turned opposition journalist, of the battle for Grozny - a powerful antidote to the constant barrage of outre-Atlantique war p..n) were considered a bit too hardcore for the club, which preferred self-help books and biographies of successful entrepreneurs. They were all, though, immaculately dressed for their Zoom calls.

Miss the university years when people had the courage and detachement to tackle difficult subjects without taking them personally. Although I hear this beautiful era is over and people are self-censoring corporate style now, presumably in preparation for their interviews at Goldman or P&G in a couple years.
 

otterhound

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One comment: I read the entire DWW piece wondering when D was going to get to Woody Allen and he never did. When I started the article he popped immediately to mind.
As soon as I read "Clark's Wallabies" I realized Wes Anderson must the apotheosis of this aesthetic.
 

Goodlander

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I think it would push the conversation forward by distinguishing between "is this a cohesive, if unwieldy, category of dress that describes a certain zeitgeist" and "is this a fashion trend.”
YES! Thank you for putting it better than I did. I think it’s over half zeitgeist, hence my question and somewhat of a pushback.

@DWW great points about this being a moment with no strong or dominant point of view, and so we’re kind of making up new things with the old things. But comfortable, and moving back down the spectrum away from high def tailoring or looks that call back a specific place/time (Ivy, workwear, Western).

There is a little late 80s/early 90s PoMo streak running through this, but I can’t tell if it’s throwback/look back, or just that we are again in an era of non-clarity on so many levels.

So appreciate this discussion today!
 

'patanoster

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This discussion is suffering from a lack of situating what the "core" type trends really are. It is crucial to understand something about epistemology and the models/theories about "the real" we create: they are not the actual fucking thing (the real) but a way to represent it so we can make sense of something that would otherwise simply be the pure chaos of infinite information. Knowledge is always, in a sense, an act of creation. There are many ways to cut beef (for example French and English cuts) so even though we are looking at the same animal (the real) the way to cut it (represent it) may differ. What I mean by that metaphor is that the cores vs the usual stuff discussed here (ivy, conservative business dress, streetwear, Americana) are just two ways to look at the idea of trends in fashion and AT THE SAME TIME cannot be dis-joined from the idea of generation/creation.

Now that I’ve clarified the epistemological context above, a few things about the cores:

  • From what I have seen the cores (cottagecore,weirdcore or whatever, including “cores” without the word core in them like dark academia or whatever) are web-born phenomena hence the perception by some poasters here that they are less authentic than older styles like Ivy. Ivy is supposedly attached to a place, a time and a social milieu or, more cogently it is mythologized that way.
  • The people involved in discussing these things tend to be very online/gen-z or youngish millennials and from Anglo-Saxon countries but that is merely a statistical probability (and not cultural requirement)
  • Like a lot of online communities (sound cloud rap or whatever) there are much less or even no ties to regional cultures (Memphis style rap flourishes can be adopted by a Belgian DJ without it mattering) and actually existing subcultures of lifestyles and even social classes (purely theoretical as demographics are very specific).
  • While images and items from the past are constantly being re-used this is more akin to sampling than to a continuation, as mentioned above this is a different way to cut the beef by people who don’t adopt the conceptual framework from past real-world analysis of fashion, which can create tension or incomprehension (fucking English people are using the wrong cuts!!!!).
  • Web-based phenomena will generally create a system of equivalency of images that does not exist in the “real world”™ so an image of a cartoon is the same as an images of a movie character is the same as your grandpa’s picture or some videogame screencap. You will note that a style and behavioural mode like e-girls is not practical in real life and even tend to use certain app-related tools and thus used almost 100% for tiktok videos and not to go to school or whatever.
  • Cores will go beyond fashion to create a general mood board, in other words an aesthetic toolbox to be used for various pursuits from an outfit to interior deco to app design and anything in between.
  • Core are elective communities so if you’re interested and play nice even an old CM dad can acquire some major witchcore clout. If you don’t like it well no problem, the communities being elective means no one is “born into them” so I don’t know why you’re complaining here, you can just ignore their existence, they will only jump into “real life” in a very selective, diluted and almost unnoticeable way.
This felt like I was reading K-hole. I rate your metaphor, makes a lot of sense to me.
 

FlyingMonkey

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The discussion is certainly getting better now it's over here!

And thanks, @Fuuma for pointing out the crucial thing, that all of these trends are as much virtual as material if not more so. The days of urban subcultures is pretty much gone in the west. But it doesn't mean that there aren't trends that play a similar role, but which are founded in online identification and only sometimes play out in real world fashion.
 

double00

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but beefcore =/= boeufcore !

material matters , i predict virtual reality is the blip , soon we will rediscover the virtual within the material
 

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