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dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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It’s funny-I usually am in jacket/tie, or a suit when I go to my local scruffy bookstore (has cats, even) because I’m walking from work on a lunch break.
Are you replying to points two and three on my list? Where I said "no sleek Italian tailoring" or "very clean SR stuff?"

If so, I think the expression of the tailoring matters a lot. I think there's a frumpiness to the look. For instance, I don't think Andreas Wineas is very bookcore (although I admire his style)

245131782_1202024380279070_8092674181072123169_n.jpg



But I think Ethan Wong, who's also often in a tailored jacket, is kinda bookcore. I also think many of his friends are bookcore-ish.


271864641_666862981018743_3465865573051932774_n.jpg



Really good comments and questions here that thoughtfully engage with the content of the article. One thing I’ll say is that, given that the first recommendation in the book suggestions section of the article is Bourdieu, I think @dieworkwear might agree with this. Or, rather, I think Bourdieu’s response would be that there’s no such thing as a style that isn’t fundamentally a cultural/class signifier. You’re right, however, that this missing class consciousness is the aspect of “bookcore” that a further presentation of the idea might need to develop more fully.
Yes, in my head, it's a "white, college-educated, liberal" look, but I think partly because I live in those types of cities. I try not to be too specific about the definition because I think other people can use the idea for their own purposes, if they find the idea useful. Was only referencing what I've seen online with people such as Ethan Wong, Rachel Tashjian, Avery Trufelman, Tony Sylvester, and other folks, who I would not describe as Ivy.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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You'd have a point if it was a trend. It's not. It's made up. There is no context.
I mean, it's a playful piece, man. Lighten up. I write a blog called Die, Workwear. It might as well be called Pee Pee Poo Poo.

I wrote the piece because I've seen some cool people on Instagram dress in a way that looks like the people I've seen at bookstore lectures in San Francisco and NYC. It's not meant as a sociological book about how Americans are dressing. If people want to incorporate this idea into their wardrobe, great. If not, fine. If it's just a playful word they use jokingly in convos, that's OK too.
 

zenosparadox

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You'd have a point if it was a trend. It's not. It's made up. There is no context.
Based on your sudden emergence yesterday and your singular interest in this thread, are you by chance the currently timed out OldTown? No trouble if so, but I’m just confused by why someone would make an account specifically to rage against something that doesn’t exist.
 

smittycl

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Based on your sudden emergence yesterday and your singular interest in this thread, are you by chance the currently timed out OldTown? No trouble if so, but I’m just confused by why someone would make an account specifically to rage against something that doesn’t exist.
Old Town got punted again?
 

Goodlander

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Are you replying to points two and three on my list? Where I said "no sleek Italian tailoring" or "very clean SR stuff?"

If so, I think the expression of the tailoring matters a lot. I think there's a frumpiness to the look. For instance, I don't think Andreas Wineas is very bookcore (although I admire his style)

View attachment 1737883


But I think Ethan Wong, who's also often in a tailored jacket, is kinda bookcore. I also think many of his friends are bookcore-ish.


View attachment 1737885




Yes, in my head, it's a "white, college-educated, liberal" look, but I think partly because I live in those types of cities. I try not to be too specific about the definition because I think other people can use the idea for their own purposes, if they find the idea useful. Was only referencing what I've seen online with people such as Ethan Wong, Rachel Tashjian, Avery Trufelman, Tony Sylvester, and other folks, who I would not describe as Ivy.
Got it. Fair to say (for menswear, at least) you can define it equally well by what is is OR by what it’s not? It’s not “high definition” tailoring, be it suits or odds, and not solely contemporary street wear or the academic spectrum, but could take from any and all of them?

Is bookcore more a lifestyle with style signifiers, or a style signified through a broad range of pieces and influences. To borrow Ethan’s term, does it require some “slouch”?
 

jmiller123

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To me the major theme here is a level of nonchalance, or slouchiness to the dress. That could be in material but also in fit.

Screen Shot 2022-01-16 at 1.03.12 PM.png

Layer-1-Plaid-Shirt_final.jpg


These two images show a flannel tucked into pants but at least in my view, the top one fits this "bookecore" definition whereas the bottom one doesn't. In the Drakes example, there is a looseness to the fit whereas the second image focuses much more on an "exact" fit. The first looks more expressive and has more character to it.

Regarding tailoring,

Screen Shot 2022-01-16 at 1.08.37 PM.png
J3274_WO6312_m.jpeg


I think the same can be seen in this comparison between the top image from Anglo-Italian and the bottom by Jcrew. There is a textural element in the first that is missing in the second which makes it much more casual in nature and blends the tailored pants with a more louche top half.
 
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dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Got it. Fair to say (for menswear, at least) you can define it equally well by what is is OR by what it’s not? It’s not “high definition” tailoring, be it suits or odds, and not solely contemporary street wear or the academic spectrum, but could take from any and all of them?
Yes, I started thinking about this last year when I bought this Isabel Marant sweater.

14170029QR_14_f.jpeg

I made a joke to a friend that this is my library sweater. Or bookstore sweater. Just because it reminded me of things I've seen older people wear to bookstore lectures.

Then I started realizing that a lot of my clothes have that kind of bookstore vibe, such as slouchy tailoring and tweeds and flannels.

I also started noticing that a lot of the people who I think are cool or well-dressed mix and match very eclectic things. I think this is because we're in a moment where there's not a dominant trend, as there was maybe ten years ago (Italian tailoring) or even five (Hedi Slimane). People dress crazy nowadays and they mix all sorts of things together -- dad caps, sport coats, fleeces with hyped vintage tees, Westernwear with whatever, etc. Fits are also becoming wider in a way that gets awfully close to what normal people who haven't updated their wardrobe since the 90s wear.

And those outfits also remind of things I've seen in bookstores because that's how real people dress. People don't normally compartmentalize themselves in Ivy or dark avant-garde or techwear.

To answer your other question, sure, you can use the term bookcore to describe your dad in Merrells or whatever. I mean, it's intended to be a fun concept. But obviously, there are "fashionable" ways to do bookcore, just like there are fashionable ways to do gorp or normcore or dadcore or whatever. People wearing dadcore aren't actually trying to dress like their dad, but there are some ideas about details or silhouettes that make it through.

Is bookcore more a lifestyle with style signifiers, or a style signified through a broad range of pieces and influences. To borrow Ethan’s term, does it require some “slouch”?
I don't think someone actually has to read books to dress like this. I think it's just an idea that someone can incorporate into their aesthetic or use to describe things that they previously felt difficult to describe.

But yes, to reiterate, I agree that, in my mind, it's a white, college-educated, liberal look. Ethan makes this point in his stream, and I agree. (Would just add that 99% of menswear is very white, including the last wave of Deadhead-inspired tie-dye stuff, Westernwear, Ivy Style, and whatnot).
 

RedVelvetWounds

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There isn't really much I'm seeing any different than ivy league other than maybe some purposeful bad tailoring. It reminds me of "Dark Academia" cosplay. Another try hard fashion movement that is a rehash of things already done.
I really don't see how a bunch of young girls cosplaying as Harry Potter characters are any more tryhard than a bunch of old dudes who spend years on a fashion forum.
 

jaaz16

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Bourdieu’s response would be that there’s no such thing as a style that isn’t fundamentally a cultural/class signifier.
Great point.

To me the major theme here is a level of nonchalance, or slouchiness to the dress. That could be in material but also in fit.

View attachment 1737894
View attachment 1737895

These two images show a flannel tucked into pants but at least in my view, the top one fits this "bookecore" definition whereas the bottom one doesn't. In the Drakes example, there is a looseness to the fit whereas the second image focuses much more on an "exact" fit. The first looks more expressive and has more character to it.

Regarding tailoring,

View attachment 1737897 View attachment 1737898

I think the same can be seen in this comparison between the top image from Anglo-Italian and the bottom by Jcrew. There is a textural element in the first that is missing in the second which makes it much more casual in nature and blends the tailored pants with a more louche top half.
Great examples!

Yes, I started thinking about this last year when I bought this Isabel Marant sweater.

That sweater is really nice!

Ok, now on topic: I think it would push the conversation forward by distinguishing between "is this a cohesive, if unwieldy, category of dress that describes a certain zeitgeist" and "is this a fashion trend."

On the first question, I felt like I immediately understood the concept while reading the article, in part because I have been to many public lectures/presentations in my academic career over the years, and the ideal types described totally matched the characters you see at these types of events/readings/lectures/whatever. Basically: Curious bookish people who enjoy attending public events with strangers to learn about a new thing (be it literature or some sort of intellectual topic).

As an example, when I was in grad school, I attended a weekly seminar that featured guest speakers. It was exclusively academics presenting research papers, but it was open to the public and there was a free lunch. Anyway, there were a few regulars, unaffiliated with the center or the university, that always attended. One guy, known to the organizers simply as "Jeb from Somerville", apparently used to be a reporter of some sort but all anyone knew was that he attended these talks every week and always asked a question or two. He was a bit more disheveled and less charming than the characters Derek describes, but the loose jeans, stretched out sweater, dated hiking boots, etc contrasted with older affluent women subtly wearing thousands of dollars worth of clothes, sitting next to the mid career prof in faded black 501s and a button down with the collar buttons undone and sleeves aggressively rolled up---it just definitely captures crowds I've seen.

As to whether this is an actual thing that fashionable people are doing, I'm not the best judge. At a minimum, I do think the combo of a big coat + slightly big trad-style shetland sweater + looser jeans + "ugly" shoes is something I've seen fashionable people wear more recently.
 

RJman

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I'm sensing ... that people in fashion ... sometimes take inspiration from people not interested in fashion



View attachment 1737838
gawd derek, do you give off some kind of e-pheromone to bring loons out of the woodwork? I think among the X-iGentry you’re closer to Wolverine: the best there is at what you do but your reply guys aren’t very nice.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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On the first question, I felt like I immediately understood the concept while reading the article, in part because I have been to many public lectures/presentations in my academic career over the years, and the ideal types described totally matched the characters you see at these types of events/readings/lectures/whatever. Basically: Curious bookish people who enjoy attending public events with strangers to learn about a new thing (be it literature or some sort of intellectual topic).

As an example, when I was in grad school, I attended a weekly seminar that featured guest speakers. It was exclusively academics presenting research papers, but it was open to the public and there was a free lunch. Anyway, there were a few regulars, unaffiliated with the center or the university, that always attended. One guy, known to the organizers simply as "Jeb from Somerville", apparently used to be a reporter of some sort but all anyone knew was that he attended these talks every week and always asked a question or two. He was a bit more disheveled and less charming than the characters Derek describes, but the loose jeans, stretched out sweater, dated hiking boots, etc contrasted with older affluent women subtly wearing thousands of dollars worth of clothes, sitting next to the mid career prof in faded black 501s and a button down with the collar buttons undone and sleeves aggressively rolled up---it just definitely captures crowds I've seen.
Yes! That's exactly the type of character!!!

I agree the specific outfits are often not very pleasing, but to me, they often have weird overlaps with what we're seeing in the menswear world.

Ok, now on topic: I think it would push the conversation forward by distinguishing between "is this a cohesive, if unwieldy, category of dress that describes a certain zeitgeist" and "is this a fashion trend."
It's prob not big enough to be described as a fashion trend. So maybe zeitgeist? Although that feels like a bigger word than "fashion trend."

I guess I use it to describe:

1. The filling out of silhouettes. Things getting slouchier
2. The weird mixing and matching.
3. The evolution of normcore and dadcore
4. Younger people getting into CM-type stuff, but wearing it in ways that are artsier or indie
5. Seeming abandonment of caring about whether you look traditionally handsome, and being ok with frump, weirdness, and even a bit of ugliness in aesthetic.
 

RJman

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i mean bookcore is basically “Slavoj Zizek
Gets Dressed Up” or “ @Fuuma is hungover” and one thing significant about it is that to me it signals a transitional time: fashion is no longer for ultra tailored piss elegance (it’s an expression I swear) and a few years ago the pedestal swung to clothes so ungainly and ugly only the very young and attractive can pull them off and now,,,, coupled with over two years of distancing and isolation making office dress codes irrelevant so people are dressing more and more either however they want or because they have given the fuck up. It’s another time where Baudelaire would have said the dandy would thrive (look it up it’s in his essay on Constantin Guys Le peintre de la vie moderne you philistines). Only now the sartorial individualism is… this
 

Bradford

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To me the major theme here is a level of nonchalance, or slouchiness to the dress. That could be in material but also in fit.

View attachment 1737894
View attachment 1737895

These two images show a flannel tucked into pants but at least in my view, the top one fits this "bookecore" definition whereas the bottom one doesn't. In the Drakes example, there is a looseness to the fit whereas the second image focuses much more on an "exact" fit. The first looks more expressive and has more character to it.

Regarding tailoring,

View attachment 1737897 View attachment 1737898

I think the same can be seen in this comparison between the top image from Anglo-Italian and the bottom by Jcrew. There is a textural element in the first that is missing in the second which makes it much more casual in nature and blends the tailored pants with a more louche top half.
Isn't that Modest Man? He's showing how to look nice, not disheveled.
 

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