lefty's random dog thread.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by lefty, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    It's tough to lose a dog to bloat. By the time you figure it out it's usually too late.

    lefty


    Tell me about it. I lost two great Tosas to bloat.

    Frankly, I have serious misgivings about the health of dogs in general, and the cost of veterinary medicine has escalated so frightfully in recent years that it has been a major reason why I have not gotten another dog.

    I get a very dark feeling whenever I go by a veterinary clinic. I don't see them as centers of health, healing and wellness for dogs--I just see them as money-gouging death houses. It's not fair or rational, I know, but nonetheless, that's just the way I feel.
     
  2. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    When you consider the genetic freaks that we've created, I think we expect too much from our dogs in terms of longevity and overall health.

    Or maybe we should look into these:

    [​IMG]

    Longevity 25 - 40 years.

    lefty
     
  3. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    Actually more closely related to cats than dogs. I have been told that they make extremely devoted pets. The downside to them is that they have positively enormous appetites. Gunwriter/adventurer Jack Lott told me that you can feed a lion for the same cost as a hyena. I seem to recall that the ancient Egyptians tried domesticating them.

    When it comes to genetic freaks, what are your thoughts on the Carolina Dog? That seems to be about as "natural" a dog as one can find. A woman in my neighborhood is into primitive dogs and has a dingo (although she admits her dingo may not be "pure"). She told me that a neighbor had a Carolina Dog and it seemed much more "doggy" than her dingo. I suppose the very "primitiveness" of primitive or natural dogs--genetic shyness, fear of unfamiliar situations, predaciousness, etc.--tends diminish their appeal as household companion dogs. However, you can find a lot of mixed-breed dogs at most pounds, I suspect, that closely resembled the primitive/pariah I dog. I fear, however, that many of them carry the same screwed up genes as many pure-breds.
     
  4. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    Interesting breed. Primitive dog or some lab cross with a hooked tail that Brisbin concocted in his backyard. I've never seen one on the flesh, have you?

    It is fascinating that they exhibit such strong primitive behaviors as regurgitation and pack hunting. I wonder if city pariahs eventually come to do so if left alone.

    The idea of mixed breed vitality is a myth.

    lefty
     
  5. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    Agree about mixed breed vitality. I would say the same about mixed-breed intelligence (or trainability, anyway, if that's not the same). I participated in a lot companion obedience work with my dogs--basic stuff and referesher courses. I always felt a lot of formal obedience work was a very good way to maintain a right relationship with a high dominance/high aggression potential dog like a Tosa. These were local classes, conducted on contract with various municipalities, and there were plenty of mixed breeds in the classes. I took maybe 20 of these classes in all with three of my Tosas. In only one of those classes was a mixed breed the top dog. As a matter of note, the German Shepherds in those classes were very unimpressive--far inferior to my Tosas. I think they were all American show-pet lines. I suspect those who got Sheps from serious working bloodlines probably gave them much more intensive training than was available in these local classes.

    I don't recall having seen a Carolina Dog. I haven't frequented any ARBA shows, the most likely venue for seeing one, in a good many years.
     
  6. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    I wouldn't say the mixed breeds are any less tractable than a purebred working breed (as any circus performing dogs will attest), but obviously you have greater odds of finding a decent animal in an established line of working dogs. This is an interesting video of high jumping Malinois in China. The athleticism of these dogs is amazing.
    IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later. I AGREE

    TIP: to embed Youtube clips, put only the encoded part of the Youtube URL, e.g. eBGIQ7ZuuiU between the tags. And speaking of canine athletes, this is Faith. [​IMG] Three-legged dogs can get on quite well, especially if the dog retains his front legs as they bear the majority of his weight and the rear legs are mostly used for locomotion. But a dog with no front legs? My gut reaction as a dog guy would be to cull the puppy. When people ask my advice about when to put their dogs down I rely on an old dogman saying ... you put a dog down when there's still something left of him other than his wounds. But if a puppy doesn't know he's wounded ... http://www.faiththedog.net/videos/CoolDog.wmv lefty
     
  7. nootje

    nootje Senior member

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    quite amazing to see that, and it does make me smile.. allthough the dogs spine and hips should get into problems with that posture, but I guess as long as the dog is still having a good life..
     
  8. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    quite amazing to see that, and it does make me smile.. allthough the dogs spine and hips should get into problems with that posture, but I guess as long as the dog is still having a good life..

    I'm a little surprised he's lasted for seven years without rupturing his ACL.

    Hell of a thing,

    Then there's this ... no dog left behind:

    IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later. I AGREE

    TIP: to embed Youtube clips, put only the encoded part of the Youtube URL, e.g. eBGIQ7ZuuiU between the tags.

    lefty
     
  9. Chiaroscuro

    Chiaroscuro Senior member

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    She had been returned to her breeder because she had killed and partly eaten the neighbor's 100-pound Akita. I think the Akita must really have pushed her because she was pleasant and gentle, maybe even a bit shy, around other dogs she encountered with me.

    [​IMG] I am a fan of Akitas, and am looking forward to owning one. I know Akitas can be dog aggressive but they usually have a respect for dogs of equal or larger size.

    [​IMG] I've heard of the Hyenas appetite as well, it is a monstrous thing. I wonder exactly how much it would cost to feed one a day.

    I remember the first time I saw the Belgian Malinois vid. My jaw literally dropped. It is a truly deceptive dog. When they do pair work its even more amazing.
     
  10. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    [​IMG] I am a fan of Akitas, and am looking forward to owning one. I know Akitas can be dog aggressive but they usually have a respect for dogs of equal or larger size.

    The Akita is a beautiful dog. While they did have their day in the fighting rings of Japan, I don't think I would consider them any more dog aggressive than any other breed in that males will posture and fight but it should be easy enough to control.

    Another breed that has been screwed up by show breeders:

    "On June 1, 1999, the FCI decided to divide the Akita into two separate "breeds" worldwide . One breed is the Japanese Akita. The other breed has been named the "Great Japanese Dog" or "GJD". The GJD consists of Akitas originally exported after WWII whose features were grossly altered by European and American breeding. The Akita standard set by the Japanese Akiho breeders has largely been ignored in the USA. The AKC (American Kennel Club) worsened the situation by refusing to register imported Japanese Akitas beginning in the seventies. This left a small gene pool of nonstandard Akitas from which the present day Akita in the USA has been inbred. "

    Japanese Akita:

    [​IMG]

    US Akita:

    [​IMG]

    Here is a damning BBC documentary of the state of the purebred dog in the UK:

    http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=44215931

    It's flawed and I disagree with some of the points but the premise is bang on - when you breed for ridiculous physical traits such as skulls that are too small to hold a dog's brains, don't be too surprised when neurological problems arise.

    lefty
     
  11. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    Regarding the disparity between the more gracile Japanese Akita and the bulkier American version of the breed, I have heard the story that that some Japanese tried mixing Akitas with Tosas to improve the fighting qualities of the Akita while preserve an essentially Akita-like dog. As it turned out, the Akita-Tosa crosses were non-competitive with the Tosa in the octagon, and many of these Akita mixes were fobbed off on American servicemen who wanted Akitas, and that's why the American Akitas tend to have broader skulls, wrinkle, etc. As I recall, Semencic tells this story in one of his books.

    However, I can't help suspecting that the disparity is more the result of American show breeders' obsession with size and "bone." I have never understood this "bone" business. If the dog has an adequate skeletal structure without weakness or deformity, why does the line need more "bone"? I note that the breeders of ADBA performance dogs don't seem to worry any about "bone."
     
  12. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    I agree with you about this "bigger is better" obsession. It runs the other way in that some breeds lose size and substance and become too elegant. The US Boxer is a good example.

    We are our worst enemies when it comes to breed refinement.

    The Bulldog skull:

    [​IMG]

    My guess is that a modern Bulldog would be even more brachycephalic.

    GSD then and now:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Basset Hound circa 1930 and now:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    On the plus side there is a movement within the show world to move away from extreme unhealthy standards:

    "The classic British bulldog, a symbol of defiance and pugnacity, is to disappear. A shake-up of breeding standards by the Kennel Club has signalled the end of the dog's Churchillian jowl. Instead, the dog will have a shrunken face, a sunken nose, longer legs and a leaner body.

    The change has angered the British Bulldog Breed Council and it is threatening legal action against the club. Robin Searle, the chairman, said: "What you'll get is a completely different dog, not a British bulldog."

    New breeding standards for 209 dog species have been brought into immediate force after the furore over breeding practices shown on a BBC One documentary, Pedigree Dogs Exposed, last summer. Breeders have until the end of June to lodge any objections. "


    Article here.


    lefty
     
  13. centrix

    centrix Senior member

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  14. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    on that note, any thoughts on the german shepherd dog?

    http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images17...jak5months.jpg

    vs

    http://www.pioneergermanshepherds.com/greta.jpg

    notice the roach back of the current breed type?


    The first dog is a puppy, so it's hard to say what he will turn out to be, but with his roached back, over-angulated rear end and slanting croup he would be considered a cripple in any other breed.

    I don't like the other dog at all. While she has a better overall balance, the dog reminds me of the Shiloh Shepherds that were popular about 15 years ago. An attempt to resurrect the old GSD, they went too far and bred for over-sized dogs with a soft temperament. An big GSD with no fire is not a GSD no matter how lovely his conformation.

    lefty
     
  15. centrix

    centrix Senior member

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    An big GSD with no fire is not a GSD no matter how lovely his conformation. lefty
    elaborate please i am seriously considering getting one
     

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