lefty's random dog thread.

[Rover!]

I'm considering getting either an Akita or a Chow Chow. Does anyone here have any experience with these breeds?

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by dcg

Quite a collection. Did your friend have a favorite, or happen to mention any comparative strengths and weaknesses between the dogs?

At least half the dogs were acquired on the cheap and weren't the best specimens. I think the Rott and the Pit were the healthiest and the hardiest.

The Dogo Argentino appeals to me (admittedly from a purely aesthetic point of view), though I am not "in the market" and won't be at any point in the foreseeable future.

Deafness and hip dysplasia seem to be the biggest problems in the breed. I'd certain check that out if ever you are interested in one. I have the impression they are more human-aggressive than most of the rare-breed molossers.

Jan, rest assured that if any point I look into a Tosa you will be the first person I contact!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are very few people breeding them regularly in the States these days. (They were much more popular in the '90s.)

Is there any book specifically on canine body language that either of you would recommend?

Something along the lines of the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Canine-Body-La...4172014&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Talking-Terms-..._bxgy_b_text_b

A lot of books on training and dog psychology will have charts showing canine body language with the postures for dominance aggression, fear aggression, submission, playfulness, etc. A lot of dogs will send mixed messages with their body language, I have found.

 

[lefty]

Originally Posted by Rover!

I'm considering getting either an Akita or a Chow Chow. Does anyone here have any experience with these breeds?

I woud pick an Akita over a Chow as i don't see the point of a Chow. Tough first breed though.

A northern climate would be best and year round outdoor kennel. There's nothing happier than a northern breed sleeping in snow. Be warned that an Akita blows its coat twice a year and it's a lot of coat.

Look at someone who breeds a Akita Inu vs. the American Akita. I believe they may be two distinct breeds at this point.

Akita Inu:

American Akita:

lefty

 

[dcg]

Originally Posted by lefty

Nothing comes to mind. There seems to be a number of books out there but I haven't read them. I'm not sure that "reading" dogs can be learned from a book.

You can start to look at Skinner and Operant Conditioning, but I'm not sure that's what you want.

Sorry.

lefty

P.S. go here to learn more about the Dogo and here for some bandog info.

I'm sure that you're right, but my thought was that it couldn't hurt. What piqued my interest was the fact that Ripley tends to get other dogs annoyed at her from time to time, and I'd like to be able to identify when the behavior is just dogs being dogs and when there's a greater possibility for escalation.

I think part of the problem is that she doesn't tend to back away when other dogs indicate that they'd like to be left alone. She'll get snipped at, retreat slightly, and then happily trot back over to play. She had another dog chasing her and chomping at the base of her tail the other day; didn't seem to bother her (if she even noticed).

Some great Dogos in that link...I went to the owner's site and recognized a few of the pics that I think you've posted earlier in the thread. Do you know or have you communicated with the owner personally?

 

[dcg]

Originally Posted by JLibourel

At least half the dogs were acquired on the cheap and weren't the best specimens. I think the Rott and the Pit were the healthiest and the hardiest.
That was my thought; even if one were to own a variety of breeds, they'd have access to very few specimens per breed, limiting the ability to come to any solid conclusions.

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Deafness and hip dysplasia seem to be the biggest problems in the breed. I'd certain check that out if ever you are interested in one. I have the impression they are more human-aggressive than most of the rare-breed molossers.
Deafness (common in most white breeds as far as I've heard) and hip dysplasia I'd read about (though I have read that BAER testing makes deafness less of a concern than it has been in the past, and that working lines have a low incidence of hip dysplasia); aggression towards humans I had not. At any rate, as stated I'm just interested in learning at this point. Doubt I could even provide a suitable environment to keep such a dog happy.

Originally Posted by JLibourel

Thanks for the vote of confidence. There are very few people breeding them regularly in the States these days. (They were much more popular in the '90s.) A lot of books on training and dog psychology will have charts showing canine body language with the postures for dominance aggression, fear aggression, submission, playfulness, etc. A lot of dogs will send mixed messages with their body language, I have found.
I've seen the basics covered over a couple of pages in training books, but was hoping for something more in depth. Maybe I'll try one of the above.

 

[lefty]

Originally Posted by dcg

stuff about my puppy being a puppy

She's a puppy.

Originally Posted by dcg

Some great Dogos in that link...I went to the owner's site and recognized a few of the pics that I think you've posted earlier in the thread. Do you know or have you communicated with the owner personally?

A few emails over the years but I've never met him. He has nice dogs and is an excellent steward of the breed. Guys like him are what makes the Dogo what it is: solid and stalwart with a "donotfuckwithme" attitude.

lefty

 

[dcg]

Originally Posted by lefty

She's a puppy.

First dog and all, wasn't sure if she was socially marsupialed or something.

I mean damn, a big dog snarls and snaps at you, how much of a dummy do you have to be to stick your face right back in there?

 

[JLibourel]

Originally Posted by lefty

I woud pick an Akita over a Chow as i don't see the point of a Chow. Tough first breed though.

A northern climate would be best and year round outdoor kennel. There's nothing happier than a northern breed sleeping in snow. Be warned that an Akita blows its coat twice a year and it's a lot of coat.

Look at someone who breeds a Akita Inu vs. the American Akita. I believe they may be two distinct breeds at this point.

Akita Inu:

American Akita:

lefty


If I'm not mistaken, the FCI now recognizes the American Akita as the "Great Northern Japanese Dog"--a separate breed from the Japanese Akita. Some Japanese Akitas are much rangier and more wolf-like than the dog you posted.

I may have mentioned this before, but I have heard the story that the American Akita came about as a result of crossbreeding Akitas and Tosas in an effort to create an Akita-like dog that could fight successfully against the true Tosas. When these dogs proved to be non-competitive, they were sold off to American servicemen who wanted an Akita. Semencic mentions this story, and I have heard it elsewhere. I am not sure whether it's true or the disparity is merely the result of American show breeders fondness for size and "bone." The first Akita I ever saw, back in the early or mid 70s was definitely of the "American" type--looked more ursine than lupoid.

 

[lefty]

Originally Posted by dcg

First dog and all, wasn't sure if she was socially marsupialed or something.

I mean damn, a big dog snarls and snaps at you, how much of a dummy do you have to be to stick your face right back in there?

She is socially marsupialed. She's a puppy. At some point she'll piss off the wrong dog and get nailed for it, but that's just part of the learning process. The best you can do is stop her from harassing a dog that is clearly not interested.

Fights are not that big a deal. Just get your dog out as soon as you can.

Originally Posted by JLibourel

If I'm not mistaken, the FCI now recognizes the American Akita as the "Great Northern Japanese Dog"--a separate breed from the Japanese Akita. Some Japanese Akitas are much rangier and more wolf-like than the dog you posted.

I may have mentioned this before, but I have heard the story that the American Akita came about as a result of crossbreeding Akitas and Tosas in an effort to create an Akita-like dog that could fight successfully against the true Tosas. When these dogs proved to be non-competitive, they were sold off to American servicemen who wanted an Akita. Semencic mentions this story, and I have heard it elsewhere. I am not sure whether it's true or the disparity is merely the result of American show breeders fondness for size and "bone." The first Akita I ever saw, back in the early or mid 70s was definitely of the "American" type--looked more ursine than lupoid.

I couldn't find a great pic.

I like these two:

I'm sure there has been some crossbreeding, but my guess is that the Americans simply kept selecting for the larger dog. Too bad as the Akita Inu is a much more handsome animal to my eye.

Just stumbled upon this:

One day in 1944, in the midst of World War II Japan, with people suffering and starving around him, Morie Sawataishi heard something troubling. The country people of Akita Prefecture were killing their dogs and selling their pelts to the military in order to line the winter coats of officers. The Akita dog, already dwindling in numbers as it fell out of favor, neared extinction. When an acquaintance offered him a puppy, Morie could not resist buying her and later purchased a male for breeding after he was able to verify the existence of only 16 other Akita dogs. Sherrill tells the story not only of the salvation of an ancient breed of dog but also of the complicated man who loved them and of his Tokyo-born wife, who had to learn country ways and how to love dogs. Throughout the book, the changes in postwar Japan are woven into the narrative, along with tales of Morie's Akitas.

I may pick it up.

lefty

 

[JLibourel]

^The Tosa went through a similar bottleneck during the war, mostly being preserved in Aomori prefecture in the far north of Honshu.

Of course, the English Mastiff almost went extinct in England during WWII. One of the surviving dogs used to revitalize the breed was probably a Mastiff-Bullmastiff cross.

 

[robin]

Interesting article on the behaviors of stray dogs in moscow: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/628a8500-f...44feab49a.html

 

[lefty]

^ Fascinating article. I had no idea that Moscow has so many pariah dogs.

Thanks.
lefty

 

[JLibourel]

I am inclined that model in the article on the Moscow dogs was rather on the nutty side for stabbing a dog to death for barking at her dog, especially since her dog was described as a "Staffordshire terrier" (AmStaff? SBT?) that ought to be able to give a very good account of itself in a fight, even with an appreciably larger dog.

Good Lord, if I were in the habit of stabbing dogs that barked at mine, the neighborhood would have been denuded of dogs...or I'd very properly be in jail or the nut house.

 

[lefty]

Nice to see that they charged and convicted her. That surprised me as well.

Moscow has to be the only western city with this many pariahs. I would spend hours watching street dogs in India, Malaysia and Indonesia. The street dogs of Bali were the most human friendly, accepting "adoption" and would easily mix in and out with pet dogs.

The street cats of Singapore were interesting.

lefty

 

[robin]

Athens is also somewhat notorious for its strays.