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lefty's random dog thread.

nootje

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^There are many better choices than a Tosa if a guard dog is wanted. Human aggression is discouraged in the breed. Of the five I owned, only one had good natural guard/protection dog instincts: If someone broke into our house, Zuma would have barked furiously and backed up; My two girls, Jessie and Tessa, and my black boy Cyrus would probably have thought, "Oh, is this a new friend?" and wagged their tails. Dempsey would have been a different matter. I am inclined to think our male Golden Retriever would be more aggressive than any of the Tosas if someone tried to break in. He's a tough little bastard! However, Tosas make excellent "scarecrow" dogs, and there's much to be said for that. Interesting that pigs are increasing your part of the Vaderlant. I have the sense that the true, pure Eurasian wild swine are much larger and more formidable than the ferals that are increasing over much of the USA.
Regarding the swine, I don’t know whether they are larger. They go up to approx 150kg here, and sometimes close to double that if you go east towards Rumania. From what I’ve seen on videos the feral pigs in say Texas can become quite large. Dangerous the wild boar are, they have a tendency to charge you head down with those large teeth in their lower jaw, which are razor sharp. Seriously recommended to wear Kevlar pants or something like it when it’s a driven hunt, they charge your legs and can slice up the arteries in your inner leg if you’re unlucky. I prefer to work from a stand personally, so no need to have a weird chat with the tailor to adjust Kevlar pants to SF approved fit levels😂.

Re tosa’s , I had forgotten the human friendly aspect of them.
 

JLibourel

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Here in California, a boar over 120 kg is getting into "monster" class. I have hunted them on a number of occasions, killed about nine as I recall. I've never apprehended any danger from them. If I were unarmed and encountered a sounder, I'd be decidedly nervous, though.
 

JLibourel

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Forum old-timers like Lefty may wish to note that today, January 26, marks the 20th anniversary of the notorious killing of Diane Alexis Whipple in San Francisco by two Presa Canario dogs. The caretakers of the dogs were tried and convicted in the case. Marjorie Knoller, the one caretaker who was present when the attack occurred, was convicted of second-degree murder and is serving a life sentence. I always thought it was a legal lynching. Negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter...maybe, but not murder 2. But the victim was a pretty lesbian, and it was San Francisco. I should have thought Knoller would have been a good candidate for pardon or at least parole. However, I gather she has definitely not been a model prisoner. Twenty years! I can remember it so vividly it doesn't seem like so long ago.
 

beargonefishing

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Forum old-timers like Lefty may wish to note that today, January 26, marks the 20th anniversary of the notorious killing of Diane Alexis Whipple in San Francisco by two Presa Canario dogs. The caretakers of the dogs were tried and convicted in the case. Marjorie Knoller, the one caretaker who was present when the attack occurred, was convicted of second-degree murder and is serving a life sentence. I always thought it was a legal lynching. Negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter...maybe, but not murder 2. But the victim was a pretty lesbian, and it was San Francisco. I should have thought Knoller would have been a good candidate for pardon or at least parole. However, I gather she has definitely not been a model prisoner. Twenty years! I can remember it so vividly it doesn't seem like so long ago.
What element of murder 2 was not supported by the evidence?
 

sood

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Forum old-timers like Lefty may wish to note that today, January 26, marks the 20th anniversary of the notorious killing of Diane Alexis Whipple in San Francisco by two Presa Canario dogs. The caretakers of the dogs were tried and convicted in the case. Marjorie Knoller, the one caretaker who was present when the attack occurred, was convicted of second-degree murder and is serving a life sentence. I always thought it was a legal lynching. Negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter...maybe, but not murder 2. But the victim was a pretty lesbian, and it was San Francisco. I should have thought Knoller would have been a good candidate for pardon or at least parole. However, I gather she has definitely not been a model prisoner. Twenty years! I can remember it so vividly it doesn't seem like so long ago.
as per Wikipedia entry, Kimberly Guilfoyle was the co-prosecutor for the above case
 

JLibourel

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What element of murder 2 was not supported by the evidence?
Well, there was no evidence to the effect that Knoller had sicced the dog on Whipple or anything like that, and she did make an effort to get the dog off the victim. A pudgy, unathletic middle-aged woman was probably stupid to think she could control a powerful 125-pound dog with a penchant for aggression, but that hardly rises to the level of murder.

Kinda surprising to think that Gavin Newsom's ex ended up as a member of Team Trump. On the other hand, given my low opinion of the governor, perhaps it's not so surprising.
 

lefty

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As I recall, it was as Jan says, she couldn't possibly control the dogs. I saw this all the time back then - people getting Presas, Filas, Anatolians that were basically rough-bred farm dogs. There were a lot of dogs put down at the time due to shitty owners.

Nice to see you here, Jan.

lefty
 

beargonefishing

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Well, there was no evidence to the effect that Knoller had sicced the dog on Whipple or anything like that, and she did make an effort to get the dog off the victim. A pudgy, unathletic middle-aged woman was probably stupid to think she could control a powerful 125-pound dog with a penchant for aggression, but that hardly rises to the level of murder.
Circumstantial evidence could have easily proven it.
 

JLibourel

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As I recall, it was as Jan says, she couldn't possibly control the dogs. I saw this all the time back then - people getting Presas, Filas, Anatolians that were basically rough-bred farm dogs. There were a lot of dogs put down at the time due to shitty owners.

Nice to see you here, Jan.

lefty
Could Presas really be characterized as "rough-bred farm dogs?" My impression has been that they were/are mostly just another bandog variant, mainly from Amstaffs and Bullmastiffs--a re-created breed to capitalize on the reputation of the huge dogs that conferred their name on the islands. It may be of some interest that when Sir Richard Burton sailed down the coast of West Africa in 1862 (I think it was) and his ship docked in the islands, he spent several days looking for the famous giant dogs but never found a trace of them. Since the late 1940s, I was an assiduous if intermittent student of dog breeds, acquiring numerous all-breed dog books in the process, but never heard anything of them until the late 1980s, when rare-breed mastiffs began acquiring a voguish popularity.
 

lefty

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Hence the "rough-bred farm dogs". I do doubt they were show bred so therefore brought a certain amount of roughness to the table.

You and I differ here a little. Maybe it's the romantic in me, but I think it likely that various large mastiff breeds developed in a number of EU countries with enough consistency to be considered typey enough to be purebred. I doubt much if any BM made into the Presa as it would be difficult to breed away from that distinct head. English mastiff perhaps.

I think I told the story of hanging out at a rare breed show with the owner of one of the better known bandogs in the late '90s. The Spaniard they brought in to judge the Presas saw the bandog and proclaimed him to be a great example of a Presa.

Who knows?

lefty
 

JLibourel

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^That reminds me of when one bandog breeder told me that a Presa breeder was buying one of his dogs to get more bodily mass and bigger heads into his line. No few Presas seem to have comparatively delicate, Amstaff-type heads. Perhaps I should put that it the past tense. It has been many years since I attended a rare-breed show.

I'm not sure about the BM's "distinct" head. Most of the early BMs looked much more like Tosas or Filas. A few years ago, I encountered a beautiful red bitch that looked just like a Tosa. She turned out to be a BM. I'd never have guessed.
 

patrick_b

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Forum old-timers like Lefty may wish to note that today, January 26, marks the 20th anniversary of the notorious killing of Diane Alexis Whipple in San Francisco by two Presa Canario dogs. The caretakers of the dogs were tried and convicted in the case. Marjorie Knoller, the one caretaker who was present when the attack occurred, was convicted of second-degree murder and is serving a life sentence. I always thought it was a legal lynching. Negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter...maybe, but not murder 2. But the victim was a pretty lesbian, and it was San Francisco. I should have thought Knoller would have been a good candidate for pardon or at least parole. However, I gather she has definitely not been a model prisoner. Twenty years! I can remember it so vividly it doesn't seem like so long ago.
IIRC the fact that there was a series of previous near misses with the dog, owner and victim likely led to the more serious charge. Just a guess.
 

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