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lefty's random dog thread.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by lefty, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    Curious the odd dogs one sees. I just got back from driving about on my weekend errands, in the course of which I spotted a full-sized Xoloitzcuintli in a car going past. You don't see many of them.

    Any experience with them, lefty or anybody? What's their temperament like?
     
  2. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    To my understanding . . . shitheads.

    lefty
     
  3. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    Just read this breeding post on another forum:

    When I was a kid, b###hes dug holes and had pups. We would wake up in the morning and just like magic there were the pups. Holes in the dirt kept the pups at just the right temperature and were just the right size. Some would die, some would be culled. They would be fed weetbix, cow's milk and raw meat, they were fed sulphur or washed with kerosene and soap or thrown in the cattle dip to control fleas and ticks, they were barely wormed and never vaccinated. The best they could hope for (if they were a promising pup) when badly injured was to be stitched up, given a shot of penicillin and locked in a cage with an old sack to sleep on. Pups who were timid were shot, as were those who were sickly or didn't work. There was no socialisation, positive training or desensitising.

    While I do not advocate treating dogs like this it does have its merits. Health problems didn't exist. If it interfered with a dogs purpose he was culled. Temperament problems didn't exist, again, if it interfered with a dogs purpose he was culled.

    Now I see breeders advising to take 8 weeks off work to help the little darlings into the world, the b###h needs to be scanned by ultrasound to see if she is in pup, NEVER allow a b###h alone with the pups, even for a minute, every pup needs to taken from the sack, towel dried and have the umbilicus cut and dabbed with iodine. Pups need to be wormed every week, vaccinated to within an inch of their life and treated with residual chemicals for fleas they don't have. They must be born in a super sterile, climate controlled whelping box inside your house and can only be fed premium, specially formulated, hypoallergenic, organic dog food. Breeders battle to save every pup no matter how what the cost, genetic problems such as cleft palates are fixed with surgery, dogs that cant mate naturally are AI'ed, fed supplements or given drugs. Dogs with allergies are treated with drugs and bred from, dogs with epilepsy are the same. If his immune system is weak we bombard them with drugs and supplements to stave of infection and disease. If a dog has a poor temperament we must smother him to cover it up or get around him like a closed up pocket knife for the rest of his life. We must never give a pup a correction for the first 12 months lest it damage his fragile mind. We can't let them walk up stairs, run, jump or chew on bones.


    I think it's fairly evident where I stand, but what does the average pet owner say?

    ====================

    Pitbull named Hummer getting his makeup for the new A Nightmare on Elm Street.

    [​IMG]

    lefty
     
  4. distinctive

    distinctive Senior member

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  5. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    Cardigans? What are they like?

    lefty
     
  6. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    Just read this breeding post on another forum:

    When I was a kid, b###hes dug holes and had pups. We would wake up in the morning and just like magic there were the pups. Holes in the dirt kept the pups at just the right temperature and were just the right size. Some would die, some would be culled. They would be fed weetbix, cow's milk and raw meat, they were fed sulphur or washed with kerosene and soap or thrown in the cattle dip to control fleas and ticks, they were barely wormed and never vaccinated. The best they could hope for (if they were a promising pup) when badly injured was to be stitched up, given a shot of penicillin and locked in a cage with an old sack to sleep on. Pups who were timid were shot, as were those who were sickly or didn't work. There was no socialisation, positive training or desensitising.

    While I do not advocate treating dogs like this it does have its merits. Health problems didn't exist. If it interfered with a dogs purpose he was culled. Temperament problems didn't exist, again, if it interfered with a dogs purpose he was culled.

    Now I see breeders advising to take 8 weeks off work to help the little darlings into the world, the b###h needs to be scanned by ultrasound to see if she is in pup, NEVER allow a b###h alone with the pups, even for a minute, every pup needs to taken from the sack, towel dried and have the umbilicus cut and dabbed with iodine. Pups need to be wormed every week, vaccinated to within an inch of their life and treated with residual chemicals for fleas they don't have. They must be born in a super sterile, climate controlled whelping box inside your house and can only be fed premium, specially formulated, hypoallergenic, organic dog food. Breeders battle to save every pup no matter how what the cost, genetic problems such as cleft palates are fixed with surgery, dogs that cant mate naturally are AI'ed, fed supplements or given drugs. Dogs with allergies are treated with drugs and bred from, dogs with epilepsy are the same. If his immune system is weak we bombard them with drugs and supplements to stave of infection and disease. If a dog has a poor temperament we must smother him to cover it up or get around him like a closed up pocket knife for the rest of his life. We must never give a pup a correction for the first 12 months lest it damage his fragile mind. We can't let them walk up stairs, run, jump or chew on bones.


    I think it's fairly evident where I stand, but what does the average pet owner say?


    There's a lot of sense in that post. I have wondered about this crazy over-medication of dogs. I don't know how much of this is due to the greed of veterinarians and how much is genuinely necessary just because dogs have become such rotten animals. Likewise, I have to wonder if this overprotectiveness of puppies isn't in part a result of excessive anthropomorphism--I think we have become dementedly overprotective of children as well--and how much is sheer greed on the part of breeders. Back in the 1950s you could usually get a good purebred puppy for around $50. Even if you figure a 10X factor for inflation, the costs of a lot of puppies today are far in excess of that--$2,000 and up is not uncommon in many breeds.

    The old ways may have been harsh, but they gave us a lot of wonderful dogs.

    Much though I love dogs, I have really gotten so turned off by the contemporary dog scene that I seriously doubt whether I'll ever get another one.

    Why is the Pit Bull being painted with spots?
     
  7. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    It takes a hell of a lot of character to turn your back on a weaker pup and let it die or remove it and cull it. You are doing something that will fill most people with shock and horror. I may be wrong, but I'd bet some places would charge you with a criminal offense.

    As you mentioned, you'd also be turning down thousands of dollars. Not easy for many people.

    If we continue to breed dysfunctional dogs and dumb them down to the point where we are creating puppy-like adults, we will guarantee two things: big vet bills and unwarranted bites.

    The pit was being painted for a film role.

    Here's an interesting pic:

    [​IMG]

    Said to be a Blue Paul.

    From the wiki:

    No one seems to have full knowledge as to how the Blue Pauls were bred or from where they originally came. There was a story that John Paul Jones, the American sailor, brought them from abroad and landed some when he visited his native town of Kirkcudbright about 1770. The Gypsies around the Kin Tilloch district kept Blue Pauls, which they fought for their own amusement. They were game to the death and could suffer much punishment. They were expert and tricky in their fighting tactics, which made them great favorites with those who indulged in this sport. They maintained that the breed originally came from the Galloway coast, which lends support to the Paul Jones legend. The first dogs to arrive in the United States with the English immigrants in the mid-19th century were the Blue Paul Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

    lefty
     
  8. crazyquik

    crazyquik Senior member

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    It takes a hell of a lot of character to turn your back on a weaker pup and let it die or remove it and cull it. You are doing something that will fill most people with shock and horror. I may be wrong, but I'd bet some places would charge you with a criminal offense.

    As you mentioned, you'd also be turning down thousands of dollars. Not easy for many people.


    I think the hardest part is turning down the (potential) $500-$2000+ dollars.

    I don't think it's character so much as just what you are used to. (Mostly white) Suburbanites in sterile communities with home-owners associations have a different take on life, death, and natural process than the rest of the country. Farmers routinely cull animals, and culling a dog wouldn't be much different.

    When life is worth a lot, it is precious. When death comes easy and life is relatively worthless, death is not a big deal.
     
  9. unjung

    unjung Senior member

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    These last few posts give me an idea. I fully intend to buy a dog for my kids (when I have kids - after I find a woman willing to bear them), and had thought I would just get a puppy from the pound. However, perhaps it would be better just to go via word of mouth and find a rural farm where I can get a pup before he's been screwed with.

    But on the subject of worms - aren't dogs de-wormed to protect their owners? I wouldn't want my kids getting sick. And I see a lot of adults willing to kiss their dogs (tongue-to-tongue contact) out there these days, let alone children who will of course do this.
     
  10. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    If we continue to breed dysfunctional dogs and dumb them down to the point where we are creating puppy-like adults, we will guarantee two things: big vet bills and unwarranted bites.

    You put this in the future tense. I fear it is already largely a reality.

    You already made that clear. I was wondering why the film role called for the funny spots. I remember my stepson painted a bunch of blue spots on my Tosa bitch Jessie to make her a "clown dog" and had her jump through a hoop and do a few other simple tricks at program his school was putting on. The whole act came as a surprise to me.

    Looks like a typical ADBA APBT to me!

    I thought the Blue Paul was pretty much extinct by the mid-19th century. It always amuses me how a lot of British sources will refer to "the pirate Paul Jones," which will then be witlessly repeated by American writers who don't realize that this "pirate" was none other than the American naval hero John Paul Jones. I wonder if the dogs brought over in the mid-19th century can properly be called "Staffordshire Bull Terriers" although Cockney Charlie Lloyd's famous dog Pilot might have cut the mustard as a Staff Bull today if his ears hadn't been cropped. As I recall, his pit weight was only 28 pounds.
     
  11. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    I think the hardest part is turning down the (potential) $500-$2000+ dollars. I don't think it's character so much as just what you are used to. (Mostly white) Suburbanites in sterile communities with home-owners associations have a different take on life, death, and natural process than the rest of the country. Farmers routinely cull animals, and culling a dog wouldn't be much different. When life is worth a lot, it is precious. When death comes easy and life is relatively worthless, death is not a big deal.
    I don't know how easy it is to cull. It certainly wasn't for me the few times I had to do it. I also don't think it necessarily means that life is worthless.
    These last few posts give me an idea. I fully intend to buy a dog for my kids (when I have kids - after I find a woman willing to bear them), and had thought I would just get a puppy from the pound. However, perhaps it would be better just to go via word of mouth and find a rural farm where I can get a pup before he's been screwed with. But on the subject of worms - aren't dogs de-wormed to protect their owners? I wouldn't want my kids getting sick. And I see a lot of adults willing to kiss their dogs (tongue-to-tongue contact) out there these days, let alone children who will of course do this.
    You have to take that original post with a grain of salt. You should worm your puppies. There may be some good working dogs on a farm, but farmers are not immune to greed. Some Amish are renowned for running puppy mills.
    You put this in the future tense. I fear it is already largely a reality. You already made that clear. I was wondering why the film role called for the funny spots. I remember my stepson painted a bunch of blue spots on my Tosa bitch Jessie to make her a "clown dog" and had her jump through a hoop and do a few other simple tricks at program his school was putting on. The whole act came as a surprise to me. Looks like a typical ADBA APBT to me! I thought the Blue Paul was pretty much extinct by the mid-19th century. It always amuses me how a lot of British sources will refer to "the pirate Paul Jones," which will then be witlessly repeated by American writers who don't realize that this "pirate" was none other than the American naval hero John Paul Jones. I wonder if the dogs brought over in the mid-19th century can properly be called "Staffordshire Bull Terriers" although Cockney Charlie Lloyd's famous dog Pilot might have cut the mustard as a Staff Bull today if his ears hadn't been cropped. As I recall, his pit weight was only 28 pounds.
    No idea about the spots. You could use reflective dots for CGI tracking purposes, but not these. I doubt that's a Blue Paul, but I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference between a pit and a paul. Pilot at a chain weight of 35 lbs. or so: [​IMG] There's an account of the Pilot X Crib fight in Armitage's book, Thirty Years with Fighting Dogs. lefty
     
  12. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    Hachikō, the dog that saved the Akita breed.

    From the wiki:

    In 1924, Hachikō was brought to Tokyo by his owner, Hidesaburō Ueno, a professor in the agriculture department at the University of Tokyo. During his owner's life Hachikō saw him off from the front door and greeted him at the end of the day at the nearby Shibuya Station. The pair continued their daily routine until May 1925, when Professor Ueno did not return on the usual train one evening. The professor had suffered a stroke at the university that day. He died and never returned to the train station where his friend was waiting.

    Hachikō was given away after his master's death, but he routinely escaped, showing up again and again at his old home. Eventually, Hachikō apparently realized that Professor Ueno no longer lived at the house. So he went to look for his master at the train station where he had accompanied him so many times before. Each day, Hachikō waited for Professor Ueno to return. And each day he did not see his friend among the commuters at the station.

    The permanent fixture at the train station that was Hachikō attracted the attention of other commuters. Many of the people who frequented the Shibuya train station had seen Hachikō and Professor Ueno together each day. They brought Hachikō treats and food to nourish him during his wait.

    This continued for 10 years, with Hachikō appearing only in the evening time, precisely when the train was due at the station.[2]


    The statue erected for this most faithful of dogs:

    [​IMG]

    Wiki:

    That same year, another of Ueno's faithful students (who had become something of an expert on the Akita breed) saw the dog at the station and followed him to the Kobayashi home where he learned the history of Hachikō's life. Shortly after this meeting, the former student published a documented census of Akitas in Japan. His research found only 30 purebred Akitas remaining, including Hachikō from Shibuya Station.

    Professor Ueno's former student returned frequently to visit the dog and over the years published several articles about Hachikō's remarkable loyalty. In 1932 one of these articles, published in Tokyo's largest newspaper, threw the dog into the national spotlight. Hachikō became a national sensation. His faithfulness to his master's memory impressed the people of Japan as a spirit of family loyalty all should strive to achieve. Teachers and parents used Hachikō's vigil as an example for children to follow. A well-known Japanese artist rendered a sculpture of the dog, and throughout the country a new awareness of the Akita breed grew.

    Eventually, Hachikō's legendary faithfulness became a national symbol of loyalty.


    The stuffed Hachikō at the National Museum of Nature and Science in Tokyo:

    [​IMG]

    lefty
     
  13. lefty

    lefty Senior member

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    A few other stuffed beasties from the museum.

    Jirō, one of two Sakhalin Huskies famous for surviving a year in Antarctica after being abandoned during a failed scientific expedition to the South Pole. In February 1958, a Japanese survey team stationed in Antarctica left their base after extreme weather conditions prevented a replacement team from reaching the site. Thinking they would return soon, the team left 15 Sakhalin Huskies chained up at the unmanned base. However, due to fuel shortages, nobody was able to return for nearly a year. When the next survey team returned to the base in January 1959, they found that two of the dogs, Tarō and Jirō, had miraculously survived the ordeal.

    [​IMG]

    Kai Ken, progenitor of the Akita and a national treasure in Japan:

    [​IMG]

    Honshu Wolf - extinct since 1905:

    [​IMG]

    lefty
     
  14. NakedYoga

    NakedYoga Senior member

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    Well, I"ve read through the thread. Maybe people can post pictures of their random actual dogs?

    This here is Rodeo (not my choice of name). He's a rescue (which is the derivation of his name... he had been hit by a car and almost died... now when he gets excited, he bucks and pounces on his toys like a bucking [rodeo] bronco), and we think he's a Boykin spaniel & labrador mix. He's about 14 months old. He's 100% housebroken (yelps by the door until someone lets him out to do his business) and knows to stay off the furniture... except the chair in the picture. That is "his" chair -- it's the only piece of furniture he's allowed on in the house, and he knows it. For months, he also hasn't needed a leash on the street when I take him to do his business. We've had him since he was about 4 months old.

    He responds to a multitude of commands, but his best is, "Beer me!" Upon this command, Rodeo will walk to the refrigerator, open it (via a small dish rag tied to the handle), and bring you an adult beverage stored on the bottom rack of the refrigerator. If he opens the door too wide and it stays open, he will close it with his nose. He comes with us to parties, and he will do his most famous trick anywhere, as long as a rag is tied to the refrigerator door handle.

    In this picture, he's asleep after a hard day of running around and playing in the garden. He wasn't too interested in a photo shoot, but he almost opened his eyes.

    He rocks.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. ohm

    ohm Senior member

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    Just read this breeding post on another forum:


    I think it's fairly evident where I stand, but what does the average pet owner say?
    lefty


    I think I was a fairly average pet owner (although none now) but have never been a breeder, and in response I come down between the two extremes portrayed in that quote. As a breeder I think you have an obligation to treat your animals humanely but I think that as a breeder you also have an obligation to cull. For those puppies that do not meet the breed standard there's no need to cull them if they are otherwise fine dogs (my assumption here being that you are breeding for a purpose and that those dogs that do not meet your requirements can be neutered or spayed and sold as pets), but if their temper is poor or they have serious medical issues I think you have an obligation to cull, difficult as that may be.

    I'll admit I don't anything abut breeding from firsthand experience, so there may be issues I'm missing. With respect to innoculations, I think you have an obligation to treat at least for rabies and distemper but I'm not familiar with the current standard shots. After that, my preference would be that each puppy be given a standard array of shots but depending on when the pup leaves for its new home I can see making that the responsibility of its new owners.

    At the end of the day I think breeders have a responsibility to treat their dogs humanely, but that you have to recognize that they're dogs and not people.

    IMPORTANT NOTICE: No media files are hosted on these forums. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website. We can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. If the video does not play, wait a minute or try again later. I AGREE

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  16. oman

    oman Senior member

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  17. dcg

    dcg Senior member

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    Teger Senior member

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  19. kever

    kever Senior member

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    What are the experts opinions on French Bulldogs and Whippets?? I really like English Bulldogs, but the health problems, short lifespan, and amount of daily cleaning needed are starting to scare me a bit. I also like Greyhounds, but they are a bit bigger than I want. Frenchies and Whippets seem to fit what I'm looking for a bit better, but i have no experience with either.

    I know the body types are almost the complete opposite, but for some reason they both really interest me more so than any other breeds. From reading about them, they seem to have good temperments, health, lifespans, companionship, need limited grooming, can live in smaller spaces (with daily activity), etc. Anybody have experience with either breed and want to share thier thoughts/experiences??
     
  20. Toiletduck

    Toiletduck Senior member

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    Well, I"ve read through the thread. Maybe people can post pictures of their random actual dogs?

    This here is Rodeo (not my choice of name). He's a rescue (which is the derivation of his name... he had been hit by a car and almost died... now when he gets excited, he bucks and pounces on his toys like a bucking [rodeo] bronco), and we think he's a Boykin spaniel & labrador mix. He's about 14 months old. He's 100% housebroken (yelps by the door until someone lets him out to do his business) and knows to stay off the furniture... except the chair in the picture. That is "his" chair -- it's the only piece of furniture he's allowed on in the house, and he knows it. For months, he also hasn't needed a leash on the street when I take him to do his business. We've had him since he was about 4 months old.

    He responds to a multitude of commands, but his best is, "Beer me!" Upon this command, Rodeo will walk to the refrigerator, open it (via a small dish rag tied to the handle), and bring you an adult beverage stored on the bottom rack of the refrigerator. If he opens the door too wide and it stays open, he will close it with his nose. He comes with us to parties, and he will do his most famous trick anywhere, as long as a rag is tied to the refrigerator door handle.

    In this picture, he's asleep after a hard day of running around and playing in the garden. He wasn't too interested in a photo shoot, but he almost opened his eyes.

    He rocks.


    This makes me smile [​IMG]
     

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