lefty's random dog thread.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by lefty, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. ClambakeSkate

    ClambakeSkate Senior member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    435
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Location:
    VE
    It's a bit of an unwinnable situation. Eventually there will be a fight and vet bills.

    Dog parks are designed to help owners socialize, not dogs. Dogs don't need to play with other dogs to be "happy." They have a pack and leader - you.

    lefty


    I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a lot about dogs so please take this as an honest question rather than questioning your statement...

    Am I enough of a 'pack' for my dog? I know it's silly, but he seems to get exited as we approach the park, thus I interpret this as 'happiness'. Trust me, I'd rather not take him to the dog park at all, and I'm certainly not there for my entertainment, but I assumed he was enjoying it... I'd honestly rather run drills and agility training with him or teach him frisbee or something like that.

    It's like taking your kid to the amusement Disneyland or something. The adults aren't going to get anything out of it but they do it for their kids enjoyment.

    I would love to hear your statement elaborated on a bit if you could? I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, I've only been following this thread relatively recently.
     


  2. lefty

    lefty Senior member

    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    1,906
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    First off, dogs aren't kids and happiness is a awkward term when to comes to canine.

    Dogs are compelled to satisfy their instinctual drives. Play is one of those drives but that can be easily satisfied by you through obedience, agility or play with the frisbee. Other canine companionship can be important but more as an opportunity for you to train and proof your dogs to work around other dogs. Your dog is excited to go to the park as that satisfies his need for exercise as well as it seems to make his pack leader very happy. My guess is that there is a escalation to your voice and body language from the moment you pick up his lead and say, "are you ready to go to the park?"

    The dog park is a lazy person's way to exercise their dogs and an opportunity to socialize with other people. A better solution for the dog is what dcg describes - find one or two other owners who like to walk and take the dogs for a romp. They exercise each other and a pack of three is much easier to control when things get crazy. Things always get crazy at dog parks.

    Your bond with your animal will be greater if the hour at the park was spent training or exercising in a more disciplined manner. That can still mean running through the woods, but working recalls or laying simple tracks for your dog to follow. Dog parks can be good to proof your dog and work calmness around other dogs. Be that "mean" guy who puts his dog in a downstay in the middle of the park for 30 minutes.

    lefty
     


  3. jhcam8

    jhcam8 Senior member

    Messages:
    4,727
    Likes Received:
    1,137
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Location:
    SE MI
    I know it's silly, but he seems to get exited as we approach the park, thus I interpret this as 'happiness'. Trust me, I'd rather not take him to the dog park at all, and I'm certainly not there for my entertainment, but I assumed he was enjoying it... I'd honestly rather run drills and agility training with him or teach him frisbee or something like that.

    It's like taking your kid to the amusement Disneyland or something. The adults aren't going to get anything out of it but they do it for their kids enjoyment.


    I don't believe that excitement = happiness in dogs. Dogs get excited for a number of reasons - many of them not desirable. I think it's a mistake, common enough, to attribute human emotions and to use human analogies when analyzing a dog's state of mind.

    My mutt gets overly excited in a number of situations and I've been lax in calming her down. She was an underexposed stray who apparently hadn't been anywhere much and she's made quite a bit of progress in a year and a half, but has a way to go. I used to have hounds ranging from 75 - 165 lbs and this one is only 17 lbs, so I can handle her with sloppy training - but she'd be 'happier' if I get her to maintain a calm state of mind, I think. I'm not as experienced as Lefty -- so, maybe I'm full of it and he'll shed more light on the subject.

    And I don't go to dog parks either but found a doggy day care that helped her in socialization w/other dogs and with separation anxiety.
     


  4. ClambakeSkate

    ClambakeSkate Senior member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    435
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Location:
    VE
    First off, dogs aren't kids and happiness is a awkward term when to comes to canine.

    Dogs are compelled to satisfy their instinctual drives. Play is one of those drives but that can be easily satisfied by you through obedience, agility or play with the frisbee. Other canine companionship can be important but more as an opportunity for you to train and proof your dogs to work around other dogs. Your dog is excited to go to the park as that satisfies his need for exercise as well as it seems to make his pack leader very happy. My guess is that there is a escalation to your voice and body language from the moment you pick up his lead and say, "are you ready to go to the park?"

    The dog park is a lazy person's way to exercise their dogs and an opportunity to socialize with other people. A better solution for the dog is what dcg describes - find one or two other owners who like to walk and take the dogs for a romp. They exercise each other and a pack of three is much easier to control when things get crazy. Things always get crazy at dog parks.

    Your bond with your animal will be greater if the hour at the park was spent training or exercising in a more disciplined manner. That can still mean running through the woods, but working recalls or laying simple tracks for your dog to follow. Dog parks can be good to proof your dog and work calmness around other dogs. Be that "mean" guy who puts his dog in a downstay in the middle of the park for 30 minutes.

    lefty


    I don't believe that excitement = happiness in dogs. Dogs get excited for a number of reasons - many of them not desirable. I think it's a mistake, common enough, to attribute human emotions and to use human analogies when analyzing a dog's state of mind.

    My mutt gets overly excited in a number of situations and I've been lax in calming her down. She was an underexposed stray who apparently hadn't been anywhere much and she's made quite a bit of progress in a year and a half, but has a way to go. I used to have hounds ranging from 75 - 165 lbs and this one is only 17 lbs, so I can handle her with sloppy training - but she'd be 'happier' if I get her to maintain a calm state of mind, I think. I'm not as experienced as Lefty -- so, maybe I'm full of it and he'll shed more light on the subject.

    And I don't go to dog parks either but found a doggy day care that helped her in socialization w/other dogs and with separation anxiety.


    Thanks to both of you for taking the time to respond. I will definitely take this info into consideration.

    Lefty, I'm curious if you have a specific dog philosophy that you follow? There seems to be several schools of thought when it comes to dogs, and I'd be interested to know more about where you're coming from. If you have a favorite book or trainer who's ideas you agree with the most, I would love to learn more.

    Thanks again.
     


  5. lefty

    lefty Senior member

    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    1,906
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    The only thing you'll get two dog trainers to agree with is that the third's methods are fucked. Here's the secret - every method works if you're fair and consistent. What you have to discover is the method that works best for your style and personality. However ... Followed Koehler for a long time. Still use the no nonsense approach, but have to acknowledge that we now know more that we did in his day. However, I would still read him if I were you. http://www.thekoehlermethod.com/ I would take a look at Mike Ellis' DVDs: http://michaelellisschool.com/ There are a few clips on his site and a ton on leerburg's site: http://leerburg.com/stream/videolist...ichael%20Ellis I've trained with Mike a few times and he is the real deal. I would also include Millan if only for his advice to stop treating your pet dog like it's a person and start exercising him. http://www.cesarsway.com/ The Koehler books should be available in used shops or online somewhere. Watch all the Ellis videos online then order the one you think will work the best for your needs. Millan, just watch his show. lefty
     


  6. nootje

    nootje Senior member

    Messages:
    3,113
    Likes Received:
    277
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Location:
    Netherlands
    bulgarians.......

     


  7. lefty

    lefty Senior member

    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    1,906
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    ^ i thought the outcome would be worse.

    lefty
     


  8. nootje

    nootje Senior member

    Messages:
    3,113
    Likes Received:
    277
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Location:
    Netherlands
    ^ i thought the outcome would be worse.

    lefty


    Well, they do have a net under the dogs and seem to try to get the dog out of the water as quick as possible. in the part were the dog walks off it doesnt seem to be that affected after a few minutes.
     


  9. mm84321

    mm84321 Senior member

    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    7
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Thought this story might be of interest to some of you: Red Tibetan mastiff becomes world's most expensive dog [​IMG]
     


  10. ClambakeSkate

    ClambakeSkate Senior member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    435
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Location:
    VE
    The only thing you'll get two dog trainers to agree with is that the third's methods are fucked.

    Here's the secret - every method works if you're fair and consistent. What you have to discover is the method that works best for your style and personality.

    However ...
    Followed Koehler for a long time. Still use the no nonsense approach, but have to acknowledge that we now know more that we did in his day. However, I would still read him if I were you. http://www.thekoehlermethod.com/

    I would take a look at Mike Ellis' DVDs: http://michaelellisschool.com/ There are a few clips on his site and a ton on leerburg's site: http://leerburg.com/stream/videolist...ichael%20Ellis

    I've trained with Mike a few times and he is the real deal.

    I would also include Millan if only for his advice to stop treating your pet dog like it's a person and start exercising him. http://www.cesarsway.com/

    The Koehler books should be available in used shops or online somewhere. Watch all the Ellis videos online then order the one you think will work the best for your needs. Millan, just watch his show.

    lefty


    Thanks Lefty.

    The trainer who helped me train my pup actually gave me some reading to do and one of the first things that she gave me was an essay that pretty much bashed Cesar Millan and his techniques. I guess a lot of people do not agree with his style at all. I will look in to the others for sure.
     


  11. mintyfresh

    mintyfresh Senior member

    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Lefty - hopefully you can help me out.

    I've got an english bully who is most of the times the sweetest dog in the world. However, there are moments (mornings and certain dogs) where she will violently lunge at a dog who is sniffing her. She essentially freezes and then 'attacks'. Quotations used because she never actually bites the other dog - she just lunges once and then backs away.

    Whatsup with this? I would greatly appreciate your insight.
     


  12. lefty

    lefty Senior member

    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    1,906
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Thanks Lefty.

    The trainer who helped me train my pup actually gave me some reading to do and one of the first things that she gave me was an essay that pretty much bashed Cesar Millan and his techniques. I guess a lot of people do not agree with his style at all. I will look in to the others for sure.


    Can you send me the essay?

    Put aside the show business and Millan's ideology is sound and drives two points home:
    1 - treat your dog like a dog and be its leader
    2 - exercise the hell out of him

    You have to read or look at a lot of trainers before you settle on what makes sense to you and before you start to apply the techniques. The worst thing you can do is read a a bit and start to train, hit a wall, then read up on another method and take off in a new direction. Consistency is the key to dog training.

    Watch the Ellis videos.

    Lefty - hopefully you can help me out.

    I've got an english bully who is most of the times the sweetest dog in the world. However, there are moments (mornings and certain dogs) where she will violently lunge at a dog who is sniffing her. She essentially freezes and then 'attacks'. Quotations used because she never actually bites the other dog - she just lunges once and then backs away.

    Whatsup with this? I would greatly appreciate your insight.


    That's hard to say without seeing what happens. New dogs or dogs she knows? Once with a dog or always? You could be translating tension through the lead. She could have a physical problem. It could be play.

    You could try to introduce her to dogs while heeling. Many simple behavior issues can be solved by getting the dog moving.

    Sorry I couldn't be more help.

    lefty
     


  13. jhcam8

    jhcam8 Senior member

    Messages:
    4,727
    Likes Received:
    1,137
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Location:
    SE MI
    The only thing you'll get two dog trainers to agree with is that the third's methods are fucked.

    Here's the secret - every method works if you're fair and consistent. What you have to discover is the method that works best for your style and personality.

    I would also include Millan if only for his advice to stop treating your pet dog like it's a person and start exercising him. http://www.cesarsway.com/

    The Koehler books should be available in used shops or online somewhere. Watch all the Ellis videos online then order the one you think will work the best for your needs. Millan, just watch his show.

    lefty


    Thanks Lefty.

    The trainer who helped me train my pup actually gave me some reading to do and one of the first things that she gave me was an essay that pretty much bashed Cesar Millan and his techniques. I guess a lot of people do not agree with his style at all. I will look in to the others for sure.


    Clam - I don't see Lefty bashing C. Millan - he points out that trainers routinely bash others and this has been my experience as well. Cesar apparently has some kind of mojo that most of us can't conjure up as needed; however, I've used some of his techniques to good advantage and I've also incorporated those of others. Years ago I took a pic of my Yorkie laying on a well chewed copy of Barbara Woodhouse's 'No Bad Dogs.' Other than that, her training tips served me well, as I recall.

    I think Lefty is correct in saying that consistency is the key - along with patience and not training when you're in a hurry or short tempered, I would add.
     


  14. Stazy

    Stazy Senior member

    Messages:
    7,194
    Likes Received:
    438
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Location:
    Toronto
    What I've gleamed from various dog forums is that those opposed to CM dislike his use of force. He has been known to physically hold down violent dogs so in a sense he matches agression with agression. A big no-no according to some...
     


  15. lefty

    lefty Senior member

    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    1,906
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    He will also use an e-collar to hammer a dog that needs that level of compulsion. I remember one GSD mix that was very cat/dog aggressive - the e-collar was hidden under a kerchief and remote in Millan's pocket. I would have appreciated him being more transparent about what he was doing.

    lefty
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by