Leather Quality and Properties

[patrickBOOTH]

Do you mean Haas today vs old German Freudenberg, or Haas today vs today’s Polish Weinheimer/“Freudenberg”? Either way one can say that Haas has loads of different leathers, so would need to be more specific.

What you would buy today. Box calf specifically.

Which leathers from Haas are you talking about? I'm very familiar with Novonappa (aka "Barenia" but I think that label is proprietary to Hermes) if that's what you're talking about…

Box calf.

 

[bjhofkin]

Got it – no experience in that case.

Re box calf and the like, @ntempleman likes Annonay.

What you would buy today. Box calf specifically.


Box calf.

 

[ntempleman]

don’t really use it any more, it’s hard to get Annonay in the U.K. now. I get my black/box calf mostly from a merchant called euroleathers who sell a Goldanil leather, or its Weinheimer. Never used Haas black calf, never even seen it

 

[j ingevaldsson]

What you would buy today. Box calf specifically.


Box calf.

Can’t say for sure I remember all 100% correct, was checking lots of skins when handled the Haas box, but would summarise like this:

Haas
Traditional french box, similar to Annonay’s vocalou, big hides, normal thickness for smooth calf (like 1.2-1.4mm)

Weinheimer
Smaller, thinner hides (like 1.0-1.2), more polish style box calf. Like Freudenberg were the last years, not the slightly thicker dense leathers that Freudenberg were further back (which made it famous).

 

[ntempleman]

1.2 is generally the thickness you want for men’s shoes, if made by hand. The Annonay vocalou was a bit thicker and quite stiff, it made up nicely though. I’d still use it if it was easier to get hold of, for certain shoes. The Goldanil currently using is better for most things, though all leather have their quirks so it’s best to use your experience to guide how you decide which to use

 

[bjhofkin]

Can Annonay be gotten at all? I was still counting on color #3708 for the brown oxfords I have planned… ?

don’t really use it any more, it’s hard to get Annonay in the U.K. now. I get my black/box calf mostly from a merchant called euroleathers who sell a Goldanil leather, or its Weinheimer. Never used Haas black calf, never even seen it

 

[bjhofkin]

Q for the experts: What exactly is Latigo leather? I've heard the term and seen examples – hell I even own two pairs of "Latigo" sandals – but what is the technical definition?

 

[DWFII]

Last time I looked Annonay was even readily available here in the US...for a wonder.

Not precisely a technical definition but latigo is a veg retan that has been hot stuffed with oils and fat liquors.

Generally speaking you don't see much latigo in shoe weight leathers. It's more common for saddlery and harness. And generally only in a brownish red or a yellow or occasionally a black. But Horween had (or has) a four ounce latigo in a plethora colours which are great for 'country' shoes and or boots.

 

[bjhofkin]

When you say it’s a veg retan, do you mean it’s veg-tanned at the first stage?

Last time I looked Annonay was even readily available here in the US...for a wonder.

Not precisely a technical definition but latigo is a veg retan that has been hot stuffed with oils and fat liquors.

Generally speaking you don't see much latigo in shoe weight leathers. It's more common for saddlery and harness. And generally only in a brownish red or a yellow or occasionally a black. But Horween had (or has) a four ounce latigo in a plethora colours which are great for 'country' shoes and or boots.

 

[DWFII]

Generally it's chrome tanned first, then veg tanned. I am not sure whether all retan is done in that sequence...I seem to recall someone telling me that it can be veg tanned first, but AFAIK, leathers like latigo are always chrome tanned first.

 

[bjhofkin]

Got it. So in that case would CXL technically be a Latigo?

Generally it's chrome tanned first, then veg tanned. I am not sure whether all retan is done in that sequence...I seem to recall someone telling me that it can be veg tanned first, but AFAIK, leathers like latigo are always chrome tanned first.

 

[Sartorium]

I wonder if anyone in this thread can help. My wife is vegetarian but has finally decided she will get some leather shoes after throwing out her plastic pairs once a year. She's only ok with it if the leather comes from animals raised for meats. I know the high quality hides are not usually meat-first cattle (though I'm sure it gets used somehow). Are there any respectable shoe or bootmakers that use discards from the meat industry?

 

[ntempleman]

Crack were the U.K. district for Annonay but they only have 2 or 3 colours in stock, and the Annonay website lists a new U.K. distro who I’ve never heard of and who’s website doesn’t work

 

[j ingevaldsson]

I wonder if anyone in this thread can help. My wife is vegetarian but has finally decided she will get some leather shoes after throwing out her plastic pairs once a year. She's only ok with it if the leather comes from animals raised for meats. I know the high quality hides are not usually meat-first cattle (though I'm sure it gets used somehow). Are there any respectable shoe or bootmakers that use discards from the meat industry?

All leather is from animals raised for meat. Calves etc haven't been raised with leather as main purpose for maybe 100 years or so.

 

[Sartorium]

All leather is from animals raised for meat. Calves etc haven't been raised with leather as main purpose for maybe 100 years or so.

Hrm. I seem to recall @DWFII saying elsewhere that high-end hides were not from meat animals, as the process of growing as quickly as possible causes stretch marks or other unsightly blemishes.