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Leather Quality and Properties

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by VegTan, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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    I thought JL and EG would use Baker for their RTW line?.
     
  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    That's interesting.

    That said, if Baker were more available here in the US...but as you say, they're a small outfit--not going to happen.
     
  3. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Oops, how embarrassing: I dropped a nut! :)



    Edward Green uses Rendenbach. I don't know what John Lobb (Northampton) uses. (Maybe their bottom leather comes from an Hermes-owned tannery.)
     
  4. shoefan

    shoefan Senior member

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    You know that Lisa is bringing it in (albeit at a hefty markup)? Perhaps given her previous participation in the group buy, she'd give you a break on price (as she should, imo). I had to encourage her to actually start using the stuff she originally bought, she was saving it....
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2015
  5. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Yeah, well you had a big hand in the last group buy, as I recall.

    PM sent.
     
  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, and I pounced on it! You know what they say about blind hogs....:crackup:

    (Even a blind hog will find an acorn ever now and again)
     
  7. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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    I read in a thread here about Weston that their tannery supplies the soles to JL, but I do not know.
     
  8. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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    Another "mistery" question. Why many makers mix their lining with veg and chrome leathers? Is it a matter of cost being chrome less expensive?.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. vmss

    vmss Senior member

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    Which brand is the one with the mix? At least you have mix. I have come to realize that many makers are using more and more chrome tan linings.

    I would think that carmina would use veg tan, but the linings are very thin chrome tanned leather.

    I like the feel of a veg tan lining much better. Why are makers using more and more chrome tan lining? Was wondering that as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    No mystery...

    First, chrome tannage can cause allergies--dermatitis.

    Second, most chromes...esp. those that are not are of such quality as to be used for upper, and are therefore less expensive... are finished with an opaque and somewhat occlusive "paint job." So they don't breathe as well as veg tans.

    Why mix? I don't know a good reason. A good veg is everything a maker needs for a lining.

    edited for punctuation and clarity
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  11. vmss

    vmss Senior member

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    Why are the using more and more chrome linings? If veg tan linings was always the way too go.
     
  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I dunno...I suspect (always) that it comes down to price and or marketability.

    Heavily finished chrome tans can cover a multitude of surface blems and are always going to be cheaper, esp. in quality, than veg tans which cannot so easily disguise the scratches, etc..

    Also, it's kind of the vogue to line shoes with bright eye-catching colours. That will always be the forte of chromes.

    And as an aside, mass marketing campaigns have convince the average consumer that whether a leather or other material is occlusive or not is irrelevant...despite what generations of shoemakers and shoemaking Traditions have shown.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. vmss

    vmss Senior member

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    I personally would prefer the natural honey brown color of veg tan linings a especially the feel.
    I have an Italian loafer and the veg tan leather feels so much great that the chrome lining.

    Just wondering are people more interested here on the colors of linings? Is there really a demand for color linings? I think I read somewhere that someone mention the honey brown color of lining generic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  14. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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    That is what I do nor understand: if veg is less expensive, smoother (to me) absorbs moisture (no occlusive) so prevents allergies, why not to use it in the whole lining?

    The shoe showed was C&J Handgrade, and Carmina is full Chrome.
     
  15. striker

    striker Senior member

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    The following is taken directly from Gaziano Girling's webpage.

    " We only use English oak bark for our soles. We do not use soles made using “oak bark techniques”, but only true oak-bark leather soles. Oak bark tanning is done over a 12 months period and Gaziano & Girling is the only shoe factory outside of bespoke shoemakers to use this material on all their shoes. Our oak bark soles are made in Devon, England, in tanning pits built by the Romans over 2000 years ago.
    Oak bark tanned soles are traditionally used only for bespoke shoes, as they are hard to work with and very costly. However Gaziano & Girling uses them for its full product range, as they are unquestionably the most comfortable and resistant leather soles in the trade."

    I assume G&G is refering to Baker? If so, is J. Rendenbach leather just using Oak Bark techniques? This is abit confusing.
     
  16. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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  17. vmss

    vmss Senior member

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    "The shoe showed was C&J Handgrade, and Carmina is full Chrome."
    I always thought that CJ handgrades linings were full veg tanned.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  18. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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    No. 3 pairs of HG and all mixed.
     
  19. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    That would definitely have to be Baker.

    As for Rendenbach, from their website:

    Valonea is acorn caps...often thought to be the source of the somewhat flint-y or brittle character of Rendenbach outsoles.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  20. mw313

    mw313 Senior member

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    I agree because the dermatitis from chrome tanning can be very problematic for people. Also in having the opaque and occlusive leathers can cause breath ability problems that can lead to fungal infections from the extra heat and moisture buildup in the footwear. That is very difficult to treat in the future as well because some of the treatment methods for the fungus are not very good for the leathers, but they have to be treated or the infection will recur even if the feet are cured once. The fungus and bacteria can continue to live in the footwear.
     

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