1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Leather Quality and Properties

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by VegTan, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. Munky

    Munky Senior member

    Messages:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Location:
    Wales, UK
    One of the things I love about this thread is the fine gradations that people make between one shoe finish and another. Take a shiny shoe, strip off its shine, give it a different shine. [​IMG]
     
  2. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    33,327
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    It isn't a secret that Alden over dyes their cordovan shoes. Supposedly it is to kind of make it their own. It does give it a very shellacked look and I have always mentioned why I think they are more impervious to water than cordovan by other makers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  3. mtc2000

    mtc2000 Senior member

    Messages:
    237
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Based on my observation, the manufacturer applies the dye to even out the natural variation in shell Cordovan, then a clear acrylic overcoat finisher to give that glossy shine. Mostly likely done to improve yield.

    With the acrylic overcoat, the "flesh-out leather" characteristics of shell Cordovan are destroyed. The traditional "vigorous brushing" or "deer boning" methods are no longer applicable.

    Shouldn't we just treat them as if they were patent leather?
     
  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,225
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Location:
    The Highlands of Central Oregon
    

    Patent leather is a plastic / vinyl layer permanently bonded to the surface of the leather.

    Acrylic finishes, on the other hand, are not waterproof and eventually will breakdown and disappear.
     
  5. mtc2000

    mtc2000 Senior member

    Messages:
    237
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Thank you, DWFII.
     
  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,225
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Location:
    The Highlands of Central Oregon
    

    :fonz:
     
  7. emptym

    emptym Senior member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,319
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    


    Really interesting. Thanks for this.

    They share the commitment to do everything they can to produce the best goods possible. Myron Glaser and DW would agree on a lot of things.

    I laughed out loud at this. Come to think of it. I've met both of you more than once, but never at the same time. Hmm… :suspicious:

    Sheesh, these are gorgeous.
     
  8. FranceT

    FranceT Member

    Messages:
    19
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Hello everybody, I speak for the property of Vecchia Toscana Group and I'm glad to announce you that the company has taken the management of Ilcea Tannery since 01/01/2014. The entire technical staff of Ilcea still work for the tannery and all the historical articles are now available for production. The news reported by xabi2005 is not entirely correct because Ilcea thanks to the financial strength of the new owner is now producing only from top european raw calf hides, while the old Ilcea in the last years was forced to buy wet blue hides from different traders because of financial problems (the major suppliers didn't give credit to old Ilcea), this fact has caused many quality problems to the old Ilcea. The tanning process is now realized in a dedicated department in Vecchia Toscana plant under the exclusive control of Ilcea staff (the choice not to produce in Turin is due mainly to legal and environmental problems), the finishing process is realized in the original Ilcea plant in Turin also under the control of Ilcea staff. If this solution seem strange to you I want to remind that Weinheimer is only a commercial company (Freudenberg closed in 2002) and devolves all the productive process to a Polish tannery (Kegar tannery).
    I think that Ilcea is a heritage to be preserved, because Ilcea calf leathers are unique.
    This is the website of Vecchia Toscana Group (you can also see a video of our plant and our productive process): http://www.gruppovecchiatoscana.com/htm.htm
    While this is the new website of Ilcea (is under construction, soon you will be able to see all the articles): http://www.ilceaconceria.it/
    For any question or doubt you can contact me in PM
     
  9. RIDER

    RIDER Senior member

    Messages:
    1,357
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    RVA - NYC
    

    Great to hear, and thanks for posting!
     
  10. Fang66

    Fang66 Senior member

    Messages:
    10,701
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Location:
    Nihon
    

    If I read the paper right single fibre diameter of chamois is 0.3 μm or about 1/10 that of the others? Also did they test actual chamois chamois? Chamois and deer aren't the same thing.
     
  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,225
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Location:
    The Highlands of Central Oregon
    

    In fact, chamois...by any definition...is never deer, much less deer suede. It is always sheep. Even the animal--the chamois is a kind of sheep.

    And it is tanned with fish oil IIRC.
     
  12. Fang66

    Fang66 Senior member

    Messages:
    10,701
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Location:
    Nihon
    

    Actually it is a goat-antelope, sheep, and goats are also goat-antelopes, i.e all sheep are goat-antelopes, but not all goat-antelopes are sheep, :teach:.

    I think, the "deer suede" is a translation issue, but I believe leather produced from other goaty type animals is sometimes (improperly) called chamois. I am curious however about what exactly they were testing.

    cod oil.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  13. VegTan

    VegTan Senior member

    Messages:
    160
    Joined:
    May 4, 2013
    

    Exactly.



    The leather used by the experiment is made from deerskin by the following method.


    As for terminology, looks like substitute for Chamois (Rupicapra rupicapra) may vary depending on the country.


    BTW, Baker's website has been redesigned.
    http://www.jfjbaker.co.uk/
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  14. Fang66

    Fang66 Senior member

    Messages:
    10,701
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Location:
    Nihon
    

    Does anyone still make chamois from chamois or are they a rare and exotic beasty?
     
  15. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,225
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Location:
    The Highlands of Central Oregon
    

    Yes, you're right. Chamois is not something that, in my experience, is used much in shoemaking. Neither is deer.

    In any case, I'll remember that. Thank you.
     
  16. Munky

    Munky Senior member

    Messages:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Location:
    Wales, UK
    Is chamois good for cleaning and buffing shoes?
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    33,327
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    Not sure if that was supposed to be a joke, but I loled.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Munky

    Munky Senior member

    Messages:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Location:
    Wales, UK
    You crack me up, sometimes, Patrick, but it was a genuine question! I seem to remember reading, somewhere, that chamois can be used to buff shoes. I might, though, be confusing it with 'cotton' chamois. Selvyt cloths are sometimes referred to as 'chamois cloths', I think. What do I know?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  19. Despos

    Despos Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    6,102
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006

    Have worn Gravati shoes from deerskin. Think they usually have some in their line. Not very durable but so soft!
     
  20. Munky

    Munky Senior member

    Messages:
    1,600
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Location:
    Wales, UK
    I got you here, Patrick! A Fine Pair of Shoes sells 'High Quality Chamois Leather' They say," this large piece of Chamois leather is the perfect polishing cloth for creating a high shine finish on your leather shoes". What's more, its made of chamois leather!

    A drink it is order, I think!
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by