Leather Quality and Properties

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by VegTan, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. JermynStreet

    JermynStreet Senior member

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    I have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about anymore. What is the scientific conclusion I should draw from this discussion?
     


  2. dbhdnhdbh

    dbhdnhdbh Senior member

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    What about fluoropolymers for waterproofing. Some substantial hiking and mountaineering boots recommend only these sprays for maintaining the waterproof properties of their products. Since these are for heavy duty use, this would appear to be based on function, not cosmetics.
     


  3. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Anybody have any experience with Saphir Creme Universelle, or Saphir Napa conditioner? I actually have some of the Universelle and it's ok, I guess. It says it has beeswax and jojoba. It feels much thinner than Renovateur. Napa seems like an interesting product, they say it is for delicate leathers and has mink oil and jojoba and no solvents.
     


  4. VegTan

    VegTan Senior member

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    Please avoid fats/oils with high iodine value and poorly refined fats/oils to prevent oxidation and greasy/sticky products not to impair air permeability and collect dust...like this...

    http://books.google.com/books?id=SGOmAAAAIAAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA15#v=onepage&q&f=false
    [​IMG]



    Fluoropolymers are more powerful than silicones, but they are not as durable as silicones because those on leather are taken away by friction. Please make sure not to inhale them.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/us/29consumer.html

    The upper photo is better water-repellent.
    http://www.water-dancer-products.com/dewelry_en.html
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013


  5. VegTan

    VegTan Senior member

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    I have used a cheaper delicate cream once.
    http://www.riderbootshop.com/saphir-creme-delicate-50ml/

    Japanese agency says it contains jojoba oil, no solvents, and no mink oil, so it would be cheaper than the square jar. It seemed to contain little wax, smelled like something sweet. I feel Lexol conditioner is enough, but it would be worth trying. Here is a demonstration.
    http://item.rakuten.co.jp/primeavenue/879030/
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013


  6. JermynStreet

    JermynStreet Senior member

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    DWF--or whoever--what is the origin and practicality of the Norwegian welt? Did it ever actually repel water at a greater rate than a traditional hand welt?

    Also, re: leather properties, I don't know if anyone watched the Mayweather - Alvarez fight, but Mayweather was sporting some pretty sick patent python leather trunks. Get a lot of orders for boots in that skin, DWF??
     


  7. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Good question. I would add to this curiosity about the efficacy of a "fudge welt," which is, I think, an ordinary welt with an additional turned out welt above it.
     


  8. JermynStreet

    JermynStreet Senior member

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    I've never been much of a "fudge welt" guy, always more of a candied apple welt type.
     


  9. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    I have mostly been an Weltanschauung person.
     


  10. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Given that corrected grain leather has a coating on it, does it absorb any cleaners or creams - coloured or otherwise? If not, presumably the shoe cleaning lists, scattered throughout the shoe thread, don't apply to such leather. However, I imagine that most people have at least some shoes made of such leather and some regularly clean them. Kiwi and Meltonian continue to thrive and I don't imagine that those products are aimed at the sort of people who visit this and the shoe site. They are aimed, I would think mostly, at people who wear corrected leather shoes. Are people with corrected grain shoes wasting their time in cleaning them?

    We don't have many shoe shine people in this country but do they refuse to polish corrected grain shoes? I wouldn't think so!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013


  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I don't do Norwegian welts very often...I'm not an expert. But at one time Norwegian welt was synonymous with a turned construction--where after the vamp is lasted and inseamed, the vamp leather in the forepart is laid flat on the undersurface of the welt, rather than being trimmed flush to the welt. This indeed did afford a measure of water resistance that cannot be duplicated by any techniques short of a hot melt molded sole.

    Python? I get some orders. i don't like piecing the vamp however and large pythons...large enough to cut two matching vamp entire...are not all that easy to come by. The leather is generally too thin to use without a backing and the scale petals (what's left after the scale has been removed) can be problematic. They used to glue all those petals down. Don't do that much anymore.
     


  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Most fully opaque leathers have some form of top coat. In a technical sense, I suppose one could argue that all leather except aniline dyed leather is "corrected grain". But the point is that the technology of finishing leather has probably advance to the point where some portion of conditioners does get through.

    It is never a mistake or a waste of time to clean your shoes even if it is corrected grain. If nothing else cleaning off the micro fines that accumulate in the creases will retard cracking.

    Meltonian in particular was never aimed at lower priced shoes. It is a decent product (British I believe) that has been refocused to the lowest common denominator in order to increase sales and profitability...like so many old and venerable firms in the shoe Trade. The worst part about it...something that is relatively recent...is that the colours are often inconsistent and they tend to fade or change as time goes by. I still use Meltonian. I still like and think it is at least adequate, and non-damaging...for the most part. We don't get Saphir or Colonnil or any of the hoity-toity, high price shoe creams here in the States...at least not readily. It's Meltonian and Kiwi and Kelly and Lincoln, for the most part.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013


  13. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Thank you, DWFII for your detailed and - as always - helpful reply. It was enlightening.

    In my message, I had written a line about 'do Saphir products really make a lot more of a difference to shoes than, say, Meltonian. - but I deleted it. From what you write, I suspect that one answer to that question might be 'not a lot of difference'. Is the difference almost just a marketing ploy? Just as people may buy 'label' clothes, imagining that they are getting something better and feeling somehow superior to those who buy ordinary clothes?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013


  14. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    I remember reading some time ago (probably a year or so) that Allen Edmonds shoe care products are re-branded Colonnil. I don't remember the source, but I'll post it if I find it. I also don't know if it was or is still true. These things can change rather suddenly sometimes.
     


  15. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    This may be where I remember it from:
    http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?64064-Allen-Edmonds-Premium-Shoe-Polish

    Just an Ask Andy thread, and alas, it is now 6 years old. For what it's worth, however, it seems that Ron Rider was the one who initially reported that Allen Edmonds products are re-branded Colonnil.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013


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