Leather Quality and Properties

[deez shoes]

As I text, my phone slowly slips from my hands!

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

Reading about some of you guys complain about sweaty feet is making me jealous. I may not suffer of sweaty feet but I do suffer of something way worse: cold sweaty hands! ???

As much as I love wearing loafers without socks, I think I'd rather have the sweaty feet issue instead ?

I do not have that issue since I wear my misses' socks ?. She usually complains I take her socks and her panty hoses. Which ultimately leads to the comment that my life, in one form or the other, revolves around shoes.

 

[DWFII]

This was one of the articles I remember reading. I am unsure of its reliability

Benefits and Qualities of Vegetable Tanning - VegLeatherHub

Using vegetable extracts from a variety of plants to tan leather infuses particular qualities and benefits to the leather which add to its charm.

vegleatherhub.com

The role of vegetable tanned leather as insoles and linings

The use of vegetable tanned insole and sole leathers provides not only elegance and sophistication to the shoes, but contributes to the health of the feet. Each square centimetre of our foot has 366 sweat glands. As a comparison, our armpit has only 157 glands per square centimetre. A vegetable tanned insole and sole leather eliminates the accumulation of moisture caused by sweat and prevents the proliferation of bacteria, fungus and irritation as well. It does this by having the ability to soak up large amounts of perspiration quickly without feeling damp or wet and then passing the perspiration to the outside where it can evaporate. This keeps the foot dry and comfortable in a way totally impossible with substitute materials.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. I have been saying it, consistantly,...esp. in reference to insoles and cork and occlusiveness...for more years, and in more posts, than I care to count. That said, I don't see anything about "chrome tanned" or "improvement over chrome tanned".

But heck maybe that's all you need...I'm just relating what I, personally, as a maker, have observed and learned over the past fifty years making shoes and boots.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. I have been saying it, consistantly,...esp. in reference to insoles and cork and occlusiveness...for more years, and in more posts, than I care to count. That said, I don't see anything about "chrome tanned" or "improvement over chrome tanned".

But heck maybe that's all you need...I'm just relating what I, personally, as a maker, have observed and learned over the past fifty years making shoes and boots.

Well no, I did not see the benefits over chrome tanned leather in this particular article. I saw it mentioned elsewhere.

Which everything mentioned within this article, I have seen listed on other sites. That was my understanding and why I brought up previously.

However, your experience contradicts that. Which, to me, is important because you have practical experience not just theoretical. Moreover, I have, as mentioned previously, heard many a member and friends discuss the deterioration of both their linings and insoles. As well as, mold developing within their shoes.

What I do not know or can not confirm is whether those insoles and/or linings were Chrome or Vegetable tanned.

All said, I will continue to wear socks ?.

 

[deez shoes]

Well no, I did not see the benefits over chrome tanned leather in this particular article. I saw it mentioned elsewhere.

Which everything mentioned within this article, I have seen listed on other sites. That was my understanding and why I brought up previously.

However, your experience contradicts that. Which, to me, is important because you have practical experience not just theoretical. Moreover, I have, as mentioned previously, heard many a member and friends discuss the deterioration of both their linings and insoles. As well as, mold developing within their shoes.

What I do not know or can not confirm is whether those insoles and/or linings were Chrome or Vegetable tanned.

All said, I will continue to wear socks ?.

Personally, I think the StC shoe trees with the huge cut out and shoe trees that have been "finished/coated" are counterproductive. That's why I always avoid those.

The illusion of letting the sole breath through the cut out is the same as letting them breath without shoe tree. Also, coated shoe tree most likely than not decrease the efficiency of the piece of wood from doing what it's supposed to. The more wood contact with leather the better performance, I would imagine. But those are just theories that I have.

 

[DWFII]

What I do not know or can not confirm is whether those insoles and/or linings were Chrome or Vegetable tanned.

As I said previously, not many dress shoes have chrome insoles. i don't think I've ever seen a pair. Sometimes the sockliner is chrome.

And, again, many manufactured or RTW shoes use chrome for their linings simply because the veg tan is a little harder to work with and probably more expensive.

Here's a way to tell whether a leather is chrome tanned or vegtable tanned: Cut a small snippet of the leather and burn it to a crisp--just keep holding the flame to the edge until the coal goes out. Or, if you are at risk of burning your fingers, gently blow on the coal until it goes out.Then crush the resulting char. Vegetable tanned leather will look like the char you get on roasted marshmallows--black and crispy. Chrome tanned leather (or retan) will result in a green or turquoise ash.

 

[BColl_Has_Too_Many_Shoes]

As I said previously, not many dress shoes have chrome insoles. i don't think I've ever seen a pair. Sometimes the sockliner is chrome.

And, again, many manufactured or RTW shoes use chrome for their linings simply because the veg tan is a little harder to work with and probably more expensive.

Here's a way to tell whether a leather is chrome tanned or vegtable tanned: Cut a small snippet of the leather and burn it to a crisp--just keep holding the flame to the edge until the coal goes out. Or, if you are at risk of burning your fingers, gently blow on the coal until it goes out.Then crush the resulting char. Vegetable tanned leather will look like the char you get on roasted marshmallows--black and crispy. Chrome tanned leather (or retan) will result in a green or turquoise ash.

Good tip. I will have to try that.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Personally, I think the StC shoe trees with the huge cut out and shoe trees that have been "finished/coated" are counterproductive. That's why I always avoid those.

The illusion of letting the sole breath through the cut out is the same as letting them breath without shoe tree. Also, coated shoe tree most likely than not decrease the efficiency of the piece of wood from doing what it's supposed to. The more wood contact with leather the better performance, I would imagine. But those are just theories that I have.

They aren’t coated at all.

 

[deez shoes]

They aren’t coated at all.

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I didn't call the StC shoe trees coated. I mentioned 2 types of shoe trees:
1.The StC with the cutout
2. Other shoe trees that have been finished/coated

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[ntempleman]

Wooden shoe trees aren’t intended to absorb moisture from shoes if that’s what you mean

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Personally, I think the StC shoe trees with the huge cut out and shoe trees that have been "finished/coated" are counterproductive. That's why I always avoid those.

The illusion of letting the sole breath through the cut out is the same as letting them breath without shoe tree. Also, coated shoe tree most likely than not decrease the efficiency of the piece of wood from doing what it's supposed to. The more wood contact with leather the better performance, I would imagine. But those are just theories that I have.

Unfortunately, those theories are wrong ? Leather dry best in free air, but it contracts during the process. You don’t want shoes to contract, hence shoe trees to retain the shape. The unfinished wood lets the leather “breath” to some extent, but as Nicholas says it’s purpose is not to absorb moisture (that’s marketing BS used by many who sell shoe trees. In the same way it doesn’t really matter what type of wood it is, as far as moist absorption goes, difference is so small anyway. The hyped cedar wood have some other pros, but “claimed” better moist absorption is irrelevant), most of the moisture will go out through the outside of the shoe. If you can retain the shape yet still have free air circulation to some extent, like with StC or similar shoe trees (it’s not like StC invented the hollowed shoe tree..), it’s better, since more moist can go out also inside the shoe. But in general, shoe trees slows down the drying process for the shoe, still need it due to the above though.

That said, you still want to use unfinished or stained wood, since varnished/lacquered wood or plastic trees will “clog” the pores of the leather and not let it “breath” in the same way as wood. You can compare it to putting a plastic bag against your skin, not super comfortable. But if you can hollow the wood out but still retain the shape, the purpose of the shoe tree, then all the better.

 

[ntempleman]

You kind of want the leather to dry out as slowly as possible anyway, so it’s a benefit if a shoetree’s design inhibits this. Accelerated drying increases the potential for damage to the material, like when your favourite woolen jumper accidentally goes in the tumble dryer

 

[j ingevaldsson]

You kind of want the leather to dry out as slowly as possible anyway, so it’s a benefit if a shoetree’s design inhibits this. Accelerated drying increases the potential for damage to the material, like when your favourite woolen jumper accidentally goes in the tumble dryer

Yeah, heard that arguments as well, while others say that drying in free air is not too quick, only the natural process. If you enhance the drying in any way, like putting them in the sun or even worse placing them close to radiator or something, then no good of course, that’s more comparable to your tumblr dryer analogy.

 

[deez shoes]

Thanks for the knowledge guys!
Yes, I was implying that the wood absorbs the moisture. The reason I reached that conclusion was due to and experience I had where my work boots got wet inside. The boots are leather but completely lined with some cloth material inside.

That day when I got home I placed shoe trees (cedar) in them overnight. The next morning, I removed the shoe trees and found that the wood had darken from the moisture and the boots were dry inside. The tree had appeared to completely absorb the moisture overnight.

Like I had mentioned before, I don't suffer from sweaty feet so this was the first time I had experience such an event which led me to believe that the trees actually do absorb moisture..But I should mention that while the boots received water inside they weren't "soaked" in water.

That was my one experience but I'm not saying that you guys are wrong. The material that had contact with the wood wasn't leather, it was cloth. However, I will never forget the appearance of the "wet" wood when I removed the trees from the boots. It wasn't something I expected to see.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Thanks for the knowledge guys!
Yes, I was implying that the wood absorbs the moisture. The reason I reached that conclusion was due to and experience I had where my work boots got wet inside. The boots are leather but completely lined with some cloth material inside.

That day when I got home I placed shoe trees (cedar) in them overnight. The next morning, I removed the shoe trees and found that the wood had darken from the moisture and the boots were dry inside. The tree had appeared to completely absorb the moisture overnight.

Like I had mentioned before, I don't suffer from sweaty feet so this was the first time I had experience such an event which led me to believe that the trees actually do absorb moisture..But I should mention that while the boots received water inside they weren't "soaked" in water.

That was my one experience but I'm not saying that you guys are wrong. The material that had contact with the wood wasn't leather, it was cloth. However, I will never forget the appearance of the "wet" wood when I removed the trees from the boots. It wasn't something I expected to see.

Think you misread, wood does absorb moisture (hence my lines about different woods used have more or less the same absorption, differences very small), but it's not the main purpose of it when we talk about shoe trees. Shoes would dry quicker in free air, but they need the trees to keep the shape. We don't insert shoe trees for the shoes to dry quicker, to absorb moisture, we do it so they dry up in the correct way.