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Leather Quality and Properties

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by VegTan, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. OzzyJones

    OzzyJones Senior member

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    Got to give the jolly old chaps somewhere to terrorise animals eh, what what?
     


  2. dbhdnhdbh

    dbhdnhdbh Senior member

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    Actually, I asked about wearing patched shoes, now and in the past, for curiosity. I am among that, I suspect large, group of people who don't really care what strangers on the internet, who have never seen me, think of my clothes. But I am curious as to whether wearing patched shoes is as odd as some have suggested, very common, or somewhere in between. Also curious whether it was more common in the past.

    I know very little about Prince Charles, and I targeted my remarks to him only because others had brought him up, and I could not see the problems with his shoes. Having had it pointed out, I SUPPOSE I can see what you are talking about, but I find it impossible to get exercised over what he, or anyone else, might choose to wear. I do find it interesting that he is mentioned on SF for being well dressed, but also here condemned for his "worn out" shoes.

    I am not hoping anyone will give me permission to wear worn out shoes. Remember, these are strangers on the internet, and I don't need their permission to do anything.

    But back to my statement, I have far lower standards for dress than a member of the royal family, I am never on TV, I do not appear at Court, and I have far less money than Prince Charles. He is considered well dressed, old shoes and all. That implies that I can be considered dressed well enough for my purposes without bespoke suits or Lobb shoes.

    Or am I missing something about these worn out shoes? Besides some finding them unappealing, are they dangerous to one's feet? More likely to result in foot injury or infection? Cold in the winter? Hot in the summer? Maintained with toxic chemicals? Otherwise, I have seen lots worse. Much worse in fact.

    Admiration for him? Frankly, I am baffled by the UK support for the royal family. But it is a democracy, and the citizens there could end the financial support, reclaim the residences, etc if they wanted to. I gather the role of the royals is a political issue over there, but most seem content with the way things are. It would not fly in the US, but as a democracy, it is up to the people of the UK to decide how to deal with this legacy of their monarchy. Mildly interesting, but I really don't care. But he gets mentioned a lot on SF, so someone seems to care about him, or at least his clothes.
     


  3. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    You may be correct, I can't say--I don't have access to everything available on that side of the pond.

    But just to reiterate Waxed Calf is not just "reversed cow hide". It was...and still is, AFAIK...a very specific process and result. Reading the description I posted may clarify things, for you.

    And as I also said anything can be called waxed calf...all you need is shoe polish on calfskin. Throw some Sno-Seal on some suede shoes and suddenly you've got waxed calf.

    Or so some would like us to believe.
     


  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Pegging outsoles goes all the way back to Roman times. But esp. during the late 19th century ans esp. here in the states, it was one of several means of outsoling a pair of shoes or boots.

    Most American Civil War era boots, both for the military and for civilians, were pegged, and cowboy boots...which evolved post war and were heavily influenced by Officers boots...were pegged. To this day the Traditional way to deal with the waist on a cowboy boot is to peg it.

    In the waist, and for the use, pegs have been shown to be more durable than stitching.

    --
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013


  5. VegTan

    VegTan Senior member

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    Here is Foster's Waxed Calf (taken by Mrs. Matsuda), which is in the process of polishing and boning. She wrote they also don't use lampblack now.

    [​IMG]



    Horween makes reversed Chromexcel which is called Huntsman.

    http://horween.com/101/chromexcel-2/
    [​IMG]

    http://horween.com/101/the-leather-that-has-3-names/
    [​IMG]

    http://42nd.co.jp/collection/walker-gunn/11759.html
    [​IMG]

    http://kippleland.jugem.jp/?day=20111218
    [​IMG]



    Other photos:

    John Lobb
    http://www.centurion-magazine.com/sections/post/top-five-bespoke-riding-boots.html
    http://www.centurion-magazine.com/uploads/pics/Boots_johnlobb_boots.jpg


    Schnieder
    http://therakeonline.com/atelier-luxury-designer-brands-artisans/blue-suede-shoes/
    http://therakeonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/RS-Boots-11.jpeg


    William Lennon's reverse tanned waxed kip butt leather
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/smallwheelsociety/5534790203/in/photostream/
    [​IMG]


    Ando's mountain boots made out of Eduard Gallusser's Gallo Juchten (a closed tannery)
    http://www.ando-shoe.com/pulse1/7000gblk.htm
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013


  6. VegTan

    VegTan Senior member

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    That leather is unglazed burnishable calf and named Vegano by Annonay. Vegano is burnished/antiqued by shoemakers. Vegano is softer than glazed leather because glazed leather becomes harder under heavy pressure. Rusticalf (named by Annonay) is milled in a drum and softer than Vegano. http://www.tannerie-annonay.fr/en/contenu-produits.htm
    Glazing [VIDEO][/VIDEO] [​IMG] Milling http://www.bowleather.co.uk/bow/TheManufacturingProcess/Milling_2010.aspx Alden's Vegano http://sgrain3.exblog.jp/19245884/ [​IMG] Carmina's Rusticalf http://www.carminashoemaker.com/web/hom/coleccion_modelo.php?lang=eng&dist=h&id_col=38&id_mod=237 [​IMG]
     


  7. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Tony Gaziano said that a lot of the upper class English folks he makes shoes for routinely get them patched. He also said that it is much less noticeable on black shoes, but that is largely all they wear anyway. He also said many people get their cracks patched, or mended.

    I personally see nothing wrong with it if the rest of the shoes integrity is sound. Also, I would be more inclined to do it on either a bespoke shoe, or a shoe that is on the expensive side ~1k+ Getting C&J's patched seems like a waste of money as doing it right would cost some good money.

    I am a fan of the patina of a good pair of shoes and I consider patches on good quality, comfortable shoes to just be the next stage in their life. I see it as a sign of cared for, well loved shoes. Member poorsod has patches on a ton of his shoes, all high end RTW and bespoke.

    Also, what makes the Prince's shoes look rather bad is the choice of leather, weird polish job, and super low profile of the sole and heel. I don't know what is up with that, but the bespoke Lobb's I have seen don't resemble that at all. It is very odd.


    Do you have a picture of a peg before it is inserted? Also, is it literally hammering a pointy wooden nail through the outsole, through the uppers/lining, and into the insole?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013


  8. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

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    If you ever go outside, you already know that it is very uncommon now. I have never ever seen it.


    Did you ever look at them on a proper screen? I think the patches are actually less of a problem compared to the blotchy scaly crinkled leather elsewhere.


    His suits are probably nice, I don't pay much attention. Maybe most of his shoes are nice. I only hold that those pictured are horrendous. He may have sentimental motives, that's fine. Still does not change that they look awful.


    This implies that you trust some arbiter, but it is amorphous. Also, someone can be generally well dressed, and make a mistake from time to time. Those shoes are a mistake.


    Makes me want to ask, again, if you have looked at the pictures in hi rez.


    Agreed, I don't understand how a populace in this day in age is satisfied with being relegated to a lower class, or to the indignity of being expected to call someone Sir or Your Highness because of their birth. So messed up.
     


  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I'd love to believe that someone is actually producing classic Waxed Calf today. I like it even better if I had access and could purchase some for my own use.

    That said...the Traditional process demands a very tight very firm leather. It also demands the aging of the leather and the finishing with some sort of sizing/wheat paste or something similar.

    It's not just stuffing the leather with oils. Lots of leathers are hot stuffed. None of them transform into anything close to the Waxed Calf I have seen which is not oily or greasy despite the stuffing.

    And I have personally talked to Skip Horween about Chromexel...the finish on the leather (as I said above) is a solvent based lacquer. Skip sent me a bottle to fill in the gaps/repair the finish on boots I was making...simply because you couldn't not just "bone it out".

    What's the difference between finishing the flesh with a heavy paint and finishing the grain with a paint AKA "corrected grain leather"?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013


  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    The answer is "yes".

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Osage orange pegging awl. (I made this)

    [​IMG]

    --
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013


  11. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Ever consider using Molly bolts? :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013


  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    [quote name="patrickBOOTH" url="/t/354137/leather-quality-and-properties/210#post_6505890"Ever consider using those expandable anchors that one might use on drywall? :)[/quote]

    Sure, when I'm hanging paintings. I'm walking on a van Gogh even as we speak...:crackup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013


  13. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Vegtan, Thank you very much for your usual, detailed and informative answer to my question about a pair of shoes. My only wonder is that a pair of shoes around £110 can be made of what seems to be good leather. Thanks again.
     


  14. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    On this side of the pond, we don't live in half-timbered houses and we don't stand in awe of prince Charles. Unfortunately the royal family is not an institution that can be 'voted out'

    I have never heard of the idea that Charles is 'well dressed'. He tends to favour old clothes, in much the same way as he appears to favour patched shoes. I suspect it has something to do with being aristocratic. Fortunately (as far as its possible to care about these things), his sons seem better dressed and I doubt that their shoes have, or will have patches.

    Oh, and just to clear it up, Charles is very rarely on TV and I'm not sure what it means to 'attend court'.
     


  15. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    He used to get his suits made up by Thomas Mahon, who is an excellent tailor, however he has been getting Turnbull & Asser MTM recently, supposedly. A lot of his combos are very tasteful, however I don't like that he buttons the bottom button on all of his DB suits.
     


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