Leather Quality and Properties

[whipstitch]

DFW, thank you so much. A ball park ratio on the cod oil/lanolin/beeswax would be enough to get me started; do you have one that would be a good starting point for my own experimenting?

 

[DWFII]



DFW, thank you so much. A ball park ratio on the cod oil/lanolin/beeswax would be enough to get me started; do you have one that would be a good starting point for my own experimenting?

I'll look for it....

I might add that in my opinion...such as it is...one of, if not the, critical issues is the fineness of the nap. A lot of what passes for waxed calf over the past 20-30 years (right up to present) is way too coarse. I am sure much of it is cow and not even that good a grade.

But the whole look of waxed calf depends on a fine nap that can be laid down and burnished such that it almost indistinguishable from grain or patent calf.

 

[whipstitch]

Of course.

I wouldn't personally be trying to recreate a waxed calf in the great traditional of old; just playing around with a possible new look for some wallets.

I would start my experimenting with regular veg tan cow that has been split and then brush the flesh with a wire brush or similar to get rid of the "buzz-cut."

It certainly wouldn't look the same, but do you mean to say it wouldn't even work and is not worth trying?

While we're on the topic, for the sizing, I have some methylcellulose (I assume that's why you used wallpaper paste) that I was going to use for this step. Is that stuff more durable than something like gum tragacanth which in my experience flakes when bent (that's why I use paraffin instead).

Feel free to ignore these questions if you're busy or to tell me to buzz off; no offense will be taken

 

[DWFII]

Well, I did it ...'m sure you can do it, as well. And I did it with cow also--there was a shortage of East India kips in the US when I started my experiments.

But the only thing I would say is that rather than brush the nap i think I would try scraping with a piece of broken glass or something along those lines. i fear brushing it would only exacerbate the loose fibers and maybe even pick up some and make them longer. We want just the opposite--a short nap.

I could be wrong but, from what I know, I don't think so.

 

[DWFII]

[COLOR=FF0000]Here[/COLOR] is a link to a treatise (part of a larger book) on how to make waxed calfskins.

And [COLOR=FF0000]another[/COLOR] on how to make various stuffings, dressings, blackings, etc..

And, with thanks, from my friend and the source of all this information, Master Al Saguto--one of the foremost authorities on shoe history in the world...

[COLOR=000cff]I’ve always had best luck with pure Icelandic cod liver oil (J.R. Baits & Lures); pure mutton tallow from around the kidneys (local shepherd), the hardest and waxiest, and just a hint of “degras” AKA sheeps’ wool grease (lanolin, J. R. Baits & Lures). Proportions depend on the purity of the ingredients, but mostly cod oil, then tallow, then a wee bit of degras. Warm into a liquid, and paint it on. “Whiten” the flesh with a whitening knife (scraper) to remove excess surface grease before blacking. Let finished skins set up in the attic a few months to oxidize the cod oil.[/COLOR]

This differs slightly from the recipe that he originally provided me (although I do have and did use the mutton tallow...memory doesn't always serve) but the results should be good.

hope this helps...

PS...[COLOR=FF0000]J.R. Baits and Lures[/COLOR]

 

[DWFII]

@whipstitch and anyone else who is interested. I thought I would pass on this additional bit of information from Master Saguto regarding "whitening" (scraping) the flesh before blackening:

[COLOR=1000FF]"The soap and lampblack were the “smutting” to color the flesh black, not degrease it. You gotta degrease it before applying the smutting, or it won’t stick."[/COLOR]

My mistake...my brain is full of important bits of information that often, and necessarily, create a certain wonderful synergy, but sometimes pieces fall through the cracks. Kind of like my library--full of pamphlets. recipes, portions of essays and miscellaneous scraps of paper ballooning out of old and overworked and tired folders. And worse, no TOC, index or catalogue.

 

[whipstitch]

DWF, Thank you so much. Those resources are wonderful (including the link to J.R.). Sorry that I called you DFW in my other posts; I must have Texas on the mind.

So like I said, I have Veg tan that has been split leaving me with a flesh side that feels like a buzz cut (I used to use kip but switched to skived cow for more uniform thickness). I'm interested in this scraping that you've mentioned a couple times now. Can you talk about what I'm trying to accomplish by scraping the flesh with broken glass?

Now, where to find that spermaceti wax...

 

[whipstitch]

Is the scraping the same step that is described as shaving/mowing in the first document? If so, it sounds like that step was taken pretty well for me mechanically already

 

[DWFII]



DWF, Thank you so much. Those resources are wonderful (including the link to J.R.). Sorry that I called you DFW in my other posts; I must have Texas on the mind.

So like I said, I have Veg tan that has been split leaving me with a flesh side that feels like a buzz cut (I used to use kip but switched to skived cow for more uniform thickness). I'm interested in this scraping that you've mentioned a couple times now. Can you talk about what I'm trying to accomplish by scraping the flesh with broken glass?

Now, where to find that spermaceti wax...

Well, my mention of scraping with broken glass was as a way to shorten long and coarse fibers. Broken glass on leather works the same way that a properly sharpened steel scraper works on wood--it will shave a very thin layer off the surface.

Master Saguto's mention...involving a whitening knife is a different process although it may involve similar techniques--it' purpose is to remove the residual oils and fats from the flesh side of the hide. Part of that is simply scraping but some small part may be actually abrading the fibers until the grease is gone.

If it were me, I'd go back to kips. I think it was Skip Horween who told me that splitting an already tanned hide reduces the tensile strength by 40-50 percent...and if I understood correctly, he suggested that splitting a hide prior to tanning won't do that.

Mike's Falconry has 4 ounce veg kips. I've made shoes from it.

 

[DWFII]



Is the scraping the same step that is described as shaving/mowing in the first document? If so, it sounds like that step was taken pretty well for me mechanically already

Frankly I don't know. I haven't had the time to read that document. I have recipes distilled from such historical documents but this was always an experiment for me...not a pursuit, if you see what I mean.

That said, I don't think the "scraping" that Master Saguto is referring to is the same. That 'scraping"..."whitening" really...comes at the end of the stuffing process, and just before the hide is smutted and put up to "age."

That's often the problem with historical documents...the language can be quite arcane...and it can be difficult for the individual not inculcated in the culture and the times to wade through the entire document much less extract the full meaning.

 

[whipstitch]

Thank you! That leather from Mike's was exactly what I was looking for when I made my switch, although the English kip I was using was half the price (though inconsistent, hence why I switched). Really surprising claim from Mr. Horween; very interesting. I would love to get some of that Kip from Mike, I just don't have the clientele to sell my stuff at that price point yet. Looks like a similar price to chromexcel, which was a failed experiment on my part business wise. I'll probably order a couple sides just to have available as a sort of upgrade option.

 

[whipstitch]

Their kangaroo is also very tempting

 

[patrickBOOTH]



I've detailed the process in other threads but I can give you a reprise of how it was done--which is substantially similar to the way I did it.

First, a really exceptional grade of veg tanned calf must be chosen. It must be a youngish animal with a superfine nap on the fleshside. East India kips were preferred during the heyday of this process.

It was then "stuffed" with a warm mix of cod oil, and lanolin and maybe a small amount of beeswax and/or rosin.)Recipes differ and I can't remember exactly what mine says--I'd have to dig for it.). Often this was done fireside with a kettle of the "stuffing" at hand.

When the leather was "full" it was set aside to "cure" in a warm place--like the attic--for up to a year or more. By that time, the cod oil would have "gelled" such that very little oilyness would be evident and the leather would smell rich and earth-y...not like cod at all.

The flesh side of the leather was then scrubbed with a mix of lye soap and lamp black. This "broke" any remaining oils in or on the nap and coloured the flesh a deep black. The colour was near-as-nevermind permanent. The grainside would remain a lovely tan.

The boots or shoes were then made--lasted and treed. While still treed and on the last, a wet mix of wheat flour...or some other type of "sizing" (I used old-fashioned wallpaper paste)...was applied to the flesh and burnished with a "long stick" or bone until dry. This had to be done in relatively small swaths so that the leather wouldn't dry out before it could burnish up. When done, the nap would have been laid down almost to the point that it no longer existed as a nap and the burnishing would have created a near-patent shine on the boots.

Of course, as has been discussed before, the burnishing would have had to have been renewed...by your valet or one of the footmen...after each wear.

On the other hand, a wallet would almost be in continuous burnishment (except the creases) although an occasional renewal of the sizing might have to be done.

Do you have any photos of your finished product, or maybe photos of other finished products. This process has several areas that would generally make me wince reading in terms of what is supposed to me "good" for leather, but apparently, for whatever reasons, it works. This is all very intriguing and I am curious as to how this was even discovered.

 

[Schweino]

Here are three of my Cheaney shoes. All three are from the same range and thus can be expected to be of the same quality.

As you can see, two of them (the 2 right ones) have some pretty pronounced creases and one (which is the oldest and most worn coincidentally) not.

My question is: is the difference in creasing caused by the quality of the leather of by the last (combined by how they fit my foot) and/or type of shoe?

The two shoes on the right with the most creases are on the same last (205) while the left shoe is on a different one (11028). The leather of the left shoes does feel more supple though than that of the other two.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

It could be a lot of things, but what I notice right away is that there are no shoe tress in any of them. That could be a factor as well (for all of them). It could be fit, how the to puff is placed, leather quality and so on.